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The P30 seems to be the absolute complete package in a firearm. But I am personally strugling with the decision to use it as the daily carry since it is just the 9mm and not .45. However, it is the best effort and presentation by a gun i have ever seen from HK. Has every new feature, best grip of them all, new sites, new mag realeases, and I like the elongated slide releases better on it than on my new HK45... It's size and shape are the best of the bunch, and the attention to detail is the best. Comes in the form fitted case, and i even love the look of the curvy lines for the front and back slide serrations... where as the HK45's are straight. I also like the shape of the trigger guard better on the P30 than on the HK45's. Last but not least, even the take down is an improvement... The ONLY thing that seems to be a draw back is the 9mm round. But at least you get 15 of them, and the magazines fit in my P2000sk that I carry when the larger guns don't fit. so the carry mag can be a 15 rounder for either... Help me to love this gun above all others... I think it deserves it. =)
 

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go here

http://www.winchester.com/lawenforcement/testing/testing.aspx#

hit "launch testing tool"


you will see that ballistic performance of high quality 9mm, .40 and .45 self defense ammunition is quite similar and quite good


i regularly carry the RA9T and the RA45T and feel quite confident that, if i get my shot placement and hits, i will be just fine with either..
+1 the 9mm round is IMO the superior round for carry. As good or very close to the 45 in stopping power, lighter, higher capacity mags, alot cheaper ammo. While I think the HK45C will be a cool gun, I would not carry 45ACP.
 

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For sure I'm not trying to start a caliber war, but just go do some research on the manufacturers web site ballistics sections and you'll see a 9mm with +P has dang near the same penetration and not too shabby of expansion when compared to a 45 ACP. When you do this study, make sure you look at the barrel length, because most 45 ammo is quoted using a 5" and most 9 is with a 4". Therefore, you'll have to take a little loss on the 45, and factor in that it's moving slower than ever so bullet design for expansion becomes critical (I shoot 200g +P gold dots in the 45).

I convinced myself at one time the 9mm would be good for PD, then I fell into the crowd that convinced me, that although I'd done the math and ballistics, fell for the 45. I'm now a 9mm guy based upon several training classes which showed me the inadequacies of 9 rounds of 45 vs say 13/15 rounds of 9. Also, follow up accuracy (for me) is much better with a 9.

Certainly, either one will kill. Now days I value more ammo and faster & more accurate follow-ups at the expense of a few foot pounds of energy. I do think the game changes for military apps, but for PD, 9 won't let you down with proper ammo.

So, if the only reason that you're apprehensive about the 9mm is internet lore, forget it. Buy what you shoot best, be it 9, 40, 45 or some other round. Again, IMO, don't just base you decision on velocity and energy; but base it on the overall performance FOR YOU, not for what somebody else says...are they going to be the one shooting it for your protection...probably not.

Just my 0.02.
 

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The 9mm is fine. I would not worry about it. Get good ammo and you will be fine. The .45 is a good round but it is not the be all end all of pistol ammo.

I myself prefer the .40 S&W as I feel it is a good compromise between the .45 ACP and the 9mm cartridges.
 

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Thanks for posting that link trio. I have carried the 9MM as well as the .45 and with the right 9MM I feel comfortable. Lets not forget a recent posting by a LE Officer on this forum where he used a P30 to save the life of his partner, himself and who knows how many more if the BG hadn't of been stopped after badly shooting a DJ at a club near a college campus where the BG could of went on to take hostages and /or kill others on campus. I hope the LE Officer is doing well.
 

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Bullet size makes a difference if you're shooting nothing but FMJ with very limited expansion. Any decent modern self-defense ammunition virtually negates that caliber gap.


Besides, if you put 2 in a dudes chest then one through his face, I don't think he's gonna care whether it's a 9mm or a .45cal.
 

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If the 9mm caliber is the only reason why you won't carry the P30 then I say don't worry about it. A 9mm can and will get the job done. There is no better evidence of this then the thread someone mentioned about the LEO who used his to sucessfully defend himself.
 

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You could carry a 22lr or a 50AE for daily carry and it not make any difference if you can't place your shots where they will do damage. If you cannot shoot them in a life supporting organ then theres nothing that will work for you.

Its ALL about shot placement.. just because the bullet is bigger or faster or whatever.. doesn't mean anything if you can't place the shot.
 

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There is some great quantitative information posted in this thread. Both are going to penetrate equally, both are going to expand within about .07" of each other (hardly noticable difference when you think about the size of the target you're shooting at), and one holds 1.5-2x the capacity and offers faster follow up shots. I'd almost prefer the 9mm, but really wouldn't care which one I had. I tend to pick the platform I like and that fits me best more than the round itself, as I think that is a much bigger factor in shooting well and defending yourself.
 

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Besides, if you put 2 in a dudes chest then one through his face.......
Yeah, I saw that episode about the SEALS on the history channel too.


Back on subject;
The 9mm is a proven round, it has and is carried by police and military around the world. It all boils down to; 1. can you hit where you aim? 2. can you get fast well placed follow up shots if needed? 3. is the gun comfortable for you to shott/carry? If you answered yes to these three questions I think you'll be fine.
 

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I am trying to remember all of a sarcastic post on another site about a question similar to this one that I found very humerous. It was something about how a 9mm round never killed anyone. it was so under powered the projectile couldn't leave the barrel most of the time. It was also known to just bounce off of warm puppy dog noses. There was more to it but I thought about how funny that reply was as I was reading this.

Back on subject Shot placement is the key. Get a nice hollowpoint round I use CorBon 115grain DPX. They mushroom out to I don't remember the EXACT measurement but somewhere around .64 inches. With 15 inches of penetration into ballestic geletin. I am fairly sure that is all I will need with shot placement and quick follow up shot capability.

Besides it don't matter what you are using if you don't hit the target so go with what seems most comfortable to YOU
 

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Try: http://www.tacticalforums.com/

Look in: The Terminal Effects Forum

Look for the post: Recomended Duty/Self-Defense Service Pistol Loads

You will find data on the "Best" loads for all calibers. The gelatin photos at the beginning of the post show the "Sameness" of all of the normal rounds.

The author DocGKR seems to favor the Winchester Ranger T as indicated by another poster. RA9T is also my choice for carry.

The advice at the end of the post is the best you can follow.....

Lefty
 
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