[Marksman14]

Alright, I'm in the middle of a 9mm identity crisis.

I like both Glock and HK, and currently own a G17 and a USP9f for my 9mm lineup.

I am selling my USP9F, and keeping the G17. My plan is to add a G19 to my 9mm lineup, and keep all my 9mm's Glock.

My rationale for dumping the USP was quite simple.
- I shoot both the Glock and the USP well. My HK groups tighter, but I have more experience with HK in general, and the difference isn't that great anyways.
- I hate the UTL, and any other light on the USP makes finding a holster impossible, especially since I require a consistent trigger pull on a firearm (try finding a cocked and locked 6004 for a USP with anything other than a UTL on it...)
- Bore axis- I'm still plenty fast with the USP, but I will take any mechanical advantage I can get.
- Magazine release- this is a BIG one. I have to shift my grip on the USP, where I do not on the Glock.

However, this is where I started thinking about the P30. I have held one, and it is with no doubt an amazing feeling handgun. Currently, it is only available in DA/SA, but from what I have read here, a few P2000 LEM parts, and you have an LEM P30.

So...I already decided that the HK USP 9F is going to go, but now I am stuck in a HK P30 "LEM" VS Glock mindset, because of what I noticed in the gunshop, and here as well.

- The new HK's seem to have a lower bore axis (when compared to the USP), is this correct?
- The P30 magazine release is in a location that allows me to hit it quickly without shifting my grip.
- The light rail is standard, and LEM hammers are bobbed. Chances are a Holster will be made that will allow various lights, etc. And I wont have to worry about tracking down a "condition one" holster like I did for my USP.


Here is what I am thinking- the P30 is a great size, and has plenty of capacity. I am thinking I MIGHT sell both my USP9F and my Glock 17. Forget the Glock 19, and make my only 9mm a P30 LEM model.

However, if I am going to take this plunge and abandon the USP AND Glock platform, theres a few things I need to know from HK LEM AND P30 shooters...

1- How is the reset compared to Glock on a P2000 LEM (or on a P30 for those who have made the conversion?)
2- How is the bore axis of the P30 in comparison to Glock? I'm not necessarily concerned about measurements, I'm more worried about follow up shots and sight recovery.

Since the P30 would be replacing my USP9F and my Glock, I am just wanting to make sure that I am not giving anything up by switching to not only the P30 platform, but also the LEM.

What do you guys think?

 

[Neoinarien]

Just my subjective two cents, as being someone in a surprisingly similar position.

I own a G17, a USP 9mm FS, and a p2000 9mm v3 (amongst other non applicable pistols, sigs, P7s, etc). I fire both the USP and the g17 great, and I stink with the p2000 (i think the trigger face is too polished, resulting in my finger slipping around between shots).

I am selling my p2000 now to move further into glock (g19).

I agree with you: the bore axis and the magazine release are annoying on the HKs, though partially made up for in other respects (the unique recoil spring system in the USPf, which itself offers a compromise because it has some tradeoffs of its own).

I have recently had the opportunity to fire a P30 and found that it was an improvement on the p2000 from my own viewpoint in relation to the problems I was having with my own P2000 (although the firearm itself always functioned flawlessly, simply user cannot fire it well). But the p30 is still plagued with the same problems that you mentioned (problems being once more a subjective opinion) such as high bore axis (as compared with glock) and the mag release (although it is improved by the extensions).

I have been facing the same question as you: go for the p30, or the g19. It sounds like you may be leaning towards the p30. I find myself going for the g19. The same problems that hurt me with the p2000 still exist with the p30. Perhaps I need to fire it more to find out whether I could adjust or not: I don't know. But it seems like a risk for such an expensive sidearm when I know the g19 will be great at nearly half the cost.

 

[Kost]

I dont own a P30 in 9mm, almost everyone here who has one, has posted very positive feed back on theirs! Ill get a P30 if/when its chambered for .40S&W. Never could get used to the violent glock trigger re-set...so I sold the g22 - glad I did, plenty of other .40S&W pistols on the market that are better and actually fun to shoot, like the USP/C .40S&W. I love all my USP's...you get what you pay for IMO.

Since I tend to 'ride the trigger', after 50 rounds on the g22...my finger was sore, and shooting it was no longer fun.

Best wishes on what ever pistol you decide to buy.

Shoot safe & watch the front sight!

 

[MakeMineA10mm]

This is SOOO strange, because I'm in the middle of a change, the opposite way. Although I am a huge 10mm fan, my dept. requires 9mmP, 40S&W, 357Sig, or 45ACP, so I carry a 45, on duty. I also carry 9mm off-duty, and previously on-duty. I converted over to Glocks (10mm at first for the couple years they bought ammo for us, and then 9mm later) straight from the wheelgun days, when I carried a S&W 686 357 Mag x 4" bbl.

I hated Glocks when they first came out, but became convinced when I bought a used 17 and torture tested the hell out of it. Then, after some heavy work (5000 rds in just less than a year), I finally became accustomed to the trigger. I've been carrying a Glock for about 11 or 12 years on duty and off.

The one thing I never liked about the large-frame Glocks (and the main reason I stuck with a 9mm Glock for a few years), was that the large frame (10mm & 45ACP) was not easy for me to handle and control with one hand. Two-handed, it's fine, but looking at real events shows that often one must use one hand, sometimes the "weak" hand, and the large-frame Glock has always concerned me regarding this. So much so, in fact, that I was considering switching to the M&P 45 or XD 45 or even the Taurus OSS 45.

Then, I felt the HK45 in April at the NRA Annual Mtg. in St. Louis. I was instantly converted. My best friend has been an H&K fan longer than I've been a Glock fan, and so I had a readily available resource to speak with and handle several other models and talk about all the trigger versions....

As far as the frames go, the H&Ks have simply out-engineered the Glock as far as ergonomics go. It also doesn't hurt H&K that they have thin-walled, steel-tubed magazine bodies, so their grips can be shaped better than the Glocks, with those thick plastic mag bodies...

My buddy has a USP45 (full-size) with an LEM trigger in it, that he has shot and dry-fired so much, that the trigger pull weighs around 2-3 lbs. (He also has the lighter trigger return, firing pin safety, and main springs installed.) I simply could not believe how smooth and relatively stack-free it was compared to my Glock triggers. Now, I do NOT like the light trigger-return spring that he left installed when he put in the LEM conversion. The one thing I like about my Glocks, and Jerry Miculek points out when he discourages people from shortening/lightening trigger return springs, is that it slows and makes less reliable you're trigger reset, if you lighten the trigger return spring. It can actually slow down your shooting, and I hate the weak, spongy feeling of the trigger reset.

So, that leaves me with getting the LEM kit for my new HK45 (when the HK45-specific LEM kits come out), and making sure that the heavier trigger return spring is installed, so that I get as positive a trigger reset as possible. It's just the way I have to go, with transitioning from the Glocks to the new H&K. I will still leave the lighter firing pin safety spring in the slide, because I don't see that as a functioning or safety issue, and it will help soften the weight of the LEM trigger a hair. I'm not sure about the main spring. My buddy says he's never had an ignition problem with the lighter main spring, but it will probably take some testing for me to be convinced. I may load some 45s with rifle primers to see how the lighter main spring handles the thicker and stronger primer cups on those... If the lighter spring will ignite those rifle primers, I'll go with the lighter main spring.

That's the way I am going. Don't know if it's right for anyone else, or even myself, but it makes the most sense to me. Hope this helps.

 

[H&K 4 LIFE]

To me the Glock trigger and the LEM are completely different animals. The LEM has a much longer travel than the Glock, not to mention being a little heavier. Personally I am not a fan of the LEM. I enjoy 9mm Glocks as well but would go with an HK for anything in a bigger caliber mainly because of the recoil reduction system in the HKs.

The P30 is an excellent weapon and you can't go wrong with this one. I for one prefer DA/SA, and the P30 has a very nice SA pull that I would miss greatly if it were to be LEM instead. The G19 shoots excellent too, and if you like the G17 you will love the G19, but to be fair the G19 is not quite up to par with the P30 mainly with respect to the grip and factory sights.

 

[ChiefPilot]

I have been carrying an issued Glock 23 for several years now. I've forced myself to learn how to shoot it consistently. It does not fit my hand well and the trigger has never really worked for me.

I started nearly 30 years ago in this career with S&W wheel guns, progressed to a Colt Python when I could afford one and made the change to an auto only when forced to. (First was a 1911, then some one running the outfit got sacred of the C&L carry at some administrator's conference so it was off to commonality and Glock land for our agency.)

Many years of PPC and bulls eye shooting of revolvers made me pretty picky when it comes to a "double action" type trigger. Glock triggers are no where near what I had become used to.

Then about a year ago, my buddy who carries a USP 45C on duty let me shoot his. Man was I impressed. The design and grip angle made it point like a 1911 in my hand, the LEM trigger reminded me of a good double action revolver trigger and I really liked the way it handled under recoil.

I was sold, now I own 2 of them. One stainless and one standard. Both with LEM triggers. Only wish I could carry one on duty. I can really out shoot the Glock with it and I'd much prefer the 45 over the .40.

Guess I'll save the USPc 45 for my retirement carry gun. Though I'd like to see what the HK45 compact is like when they are available.

 

[ChiefPilot]

Forgot to mention FWIW.

My wife had carried a J frame Smith as a CCW handgun for a while when she decided to try a semi auto. She had little experience with any semi auto handgun so she was pretty neutral going into her decision process. I had not voiced my preferences in front of her.

She shot a GLock 26 & the P2000SK LEM. Well, she decided on the P2000SK. She commented on the triggers and the feel in her hand.

I thought it was a pretty neutral side by side evaluation of both guns. I'm glad she made the decision she did though I was willing to support her either way even if the Glock would have been cheaper!!

 

[Lefty Gunner]

I have both a Glock 34 and a P2000 LEM. I have found that I shoot the much shorter P2000 almost as well in IDPA matches! This is from an IWB carry holster and carry type mag pouches.

I did the Big Bore LEM conversion and the performance with the lighter LEM is great. The longer travel is no problem as I stage the trigger for most shots. The long very light pull makes this easy to learn.

Combine this with the better, longer grip on the P30 a longer barrel than the P2000 and this platform should be a winner!

I have tricked my Glock to the max and it still produces mediocre groups. All the P2000 needed was two springs and a little practice. I believe that the HK's are inherently more accurate.

I would own a P30 if I did not already own a p2000. I will own a P30L LEM if this model becomes available! It will be my SSP IDPA gun and I won't look back.