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Discussion Starter #1
Have to state, without holding either yet I'm now leaning more towards the 250.

MOD: remove link if not appropriate:

http://www.sigsauer.com/Products/ShowCatalogProductDetails.aspx?categoryid=54&productid=183

There's an announcement on the sig forum from the marketing pres regarding the availability in time for Thanksgiving.

Price <$580 on the street excluding any 'newness' gouging.

Ability to swap out for 9mm, 40, 357 and .45 caliber.

It comes down to grip and feel for me as I have very small hands.

I think they are both pretty ugly guns, but as long as they fit my hand and go boom- it's all good. At least the 250 will come in two tone versions. :)

THOUGH, 250 is double action only for now whereas, P30 is DA/SA only for now. I'd rather DA/SA- but couple of neat choices.

Anyone eying the P30 interested in the SIG 250?

Can probably get the 250 with .357/40 plus 9mm for total cost (or somewhat close to) one P30 9mm alone.

Can't wait to hold both. It's a good time to be into guns and it will only get better.
 

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I'll take first at bat on this one. I don't understand the hype about the 250. It has existed in Europe since around 2002 or 2003. American SIG lovers wanted it then, but no dice. SIGArms has changed dramatically, pushing out some shoddy products, with a total lack of customer support. I know firsthand, it took me close to 2 months to get a parts kit for an older 239.

The pistol is going to come in close to $600, the price of what a classic SIG used to cost just a few years ago. The 250 is polymer, but SIGArms/SIGArette/whatever has it weighing in at close to the same amount as the P229. The pistol isn't that small either. What SIG people want is a SIG that can compete with the baby Glocks, et al. With that being said, the P30 isn't exactly small either.

At this point in the firearms industry I feel any HK purchase is wiser than a SIG purchase. I love the old SIGs, but what they've been putting out for the past few years doesn't seem up to spec. They keep regurgitating old models in new colors and calling them "new models." That just doesn't jive with me. HK, on the other hand, brings completely new designs to the table, for the same or le$$. There once was a time when HK customer service sucked and HKs were too expensive. I'm afraid SIG is the one wearing that hat these days. The difference is, HK has kept up their standards for high quality, whereas this is an area of concern with SIGArms, SIGAr, or whatever they are calling themselves today.

You can go HK, or you can go gamble with your dough. That's how I see it.

Good luck,

RHP
 

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Remember you are on an HK Forum, so the answers you get may be a little biased :)

I agree with Rican Havoc. Sigs products are a little shoddy and the customer service is really bad (but at least they answer the phone – hint, hint HK). I have a Sig P220 Match and this is supposed to be one of their “better” more expensive models. I have had FTE problems with it since day one. It went back to Sig twice before they even made any improvement in it, and I had to argue with customer service. The Sig is my least favorite and is probably relegated to taking up space in my safe. I would NEVER trust my life to it.

On the other the wife’s P30 is a good gun. No problems with it, after initial cleaning and little break-in. She has been shooting it every week since we got it with no problems.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I agree the P30 will probably feel like a tighter gun much like the SK felt better to me than say the M&P or XD.

I don't think Europe is as diversified as we are in the USA regarding calibers. Isn't HK dicontinuing P2000 and SK .357's?

I just have to hold both. I WAS excited as I thought the small grip would be well, small. But 5.4 inch circumference doesn't seem small to me based on measurements I took of my guns.

DEPENDING upon how much SIG prices different frames/barrels it could be a cool gun to own. I'd like a 9mm and .45 on the same platform and same grip...unless I misunderstand the system (quite possible).

The grip looks nicer on the HK though.

Kenji, any idea if the smallest grip circumference on the P30 is smaller than the P2000 with smallest backstraps?
 

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Kenji, any idea if the smallest grip circumference on the P30 is smaller than the P2000 with smallest backstraps?
Sorry, I really do not have any idea. My wife is not a big woman and she uses the standard/medium grips on the P30 and has no problem.

I am sure someone can answer your question, as there are many here that are much more knowledgeable than I.
 

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Before i really discovered H&K USP pistols i totally screwed my self and bought a SIG P220 .45 Equinox carry model. It was very expensive also.(1100.00 bucks) The gun never felt "right" Thick & Slick. Soon after i found this website and tested out a h&k Usp Compact .45 and i fell in love. Man, what a firearm. Bought a brand new one and I never looked back. Iam currently trying to get my hands on a USP COMPACT 9mm w/stainless slide. It feels like it was made for me and i couldnt say enough good things about it. I also have a Glock 30 and thats OK but its no USP Compact.
 

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I find the P250 very intriguing. The ability to change guns every day along with calibers at a reasonable cost is nice. I am very interested in checking one out before I jump in though.
 

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Both are nice guns.

I'm not sure the P30 is worth $200 more than the P250, but value is of course, decided by the buyer.

Despite what some people will tell you regarding Sig's QC, Sig is still a very high quality pistol.

I've held the P30, never held the P250, but I'd be very suprised if the P250 was as comfy as the P30. However the P250 does have the benefit of being able to "replace" 3 guns.

Tough call, but if I were you, I'd probly pick up a P250, and wait for the price of the P30 to drop a little bit.
 

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I have a P30 and love the pistol. Honestly, you guys won't have to worry about me buying A sig. One more for you guys to buy as far as I am concerned. You couldn't even give me one I don't like them at all.
 

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I too will chime in for quality (HK). My Dept. purchased a large quantity of Sig P220's a few years back. We have pretty much had nothing but problems with them since then (I won't go into it, because the list is long). Sig has not dealt with the problems at all, infact they said one of the issues was not worth them correcting, remember I said Dept. purchased duty guns.. I think we bought somewhere between 250 to 300 guns... Thankfully, we recently changed our policy and individual officers can purchase their own weapons, I AM EAGERLY WAITING FOR THE HK45!

Just to be fair, I have an older Sig P220 (made in West Germany), which has never even had so much as a hicup, after thousands and thousands of rounds down the pipe. I really love my old Sig, the new one, well that is a different story...

good luck.... and I agree, the P250 is very interesting, I just worry about quality...
 

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I am going with the P250. I dont see the appeal of the P30.

The P250 has better capacity, modularity, is cheaper and DAO which I prefer to ugly DA/SA triggers.

Hell, with one P250 you have a P2000, P30 and USP competitor rolled into one firearm.

The USA made P250 has been well improved over the Euro model which was well defeated by the P30 in Germany.

I despise SIG for the abomination and butchering of the 55x carbine, but they've done a good job with the P250 and I've already reserved my copy.
 

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I too will chime in for quality (HK). My Dept. purchased a large quantity of Sig P220's a few years back. We have pretty much had nothing but problems with them since then (I won't go into it, because the list is long). Sig has not dealt with the problems at all, infact they said one of the issues was not worth them correcting, remember I said Dept. purchased duty guns.. I think we bought somewhere between 250 to 300 guns... Thankfully, we recently changed our policy and individual officers can purchase their own weapons, I AM EAGERLY WAITING FOR THE HK45!

Just to be fair, I have an older Sig P220 (made in West Germany), which has never even had so much as a hicup, after thousands and thousands of rounds down the pipe. I really love my old Sig, the new one, well that is a different story...

good luck.... and I agree, the P250 is very interesting, I just worry about quality...

A buddy of mine had a similar issue he carried a 220ST for years and loved it, but then his department mandated the swith to the 220DAO due to "safety precautions" and although his issues have been minor a few guys had not been as lucky. I would really like to own a sig some day, but not until they get their act together again.
 

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Just to clarify something. I think the P250 will actually have 2 versions. I believe the 9mm, 40 S&W, and 357 Sig will be easily interchangeable while the 45 ACP version may be stand alone. I'm not exactly sure, but I am pretty sure I read somewhere that the 45 ACP version will be different. What this means I'm not exactly sure. Only the trigger housing part is serial numbered, and that's the part that counts as the "gun." Thus, the frames and slide/barrel assemblies are all interchangeable. Maybe the 45 version has a different trigger housing. ???
 

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Regarding the "two versions" of the P250. As I understand it, it's all about the grips, where there are 3 sizes, each with three versions.
The grip versions for the 9mm .40Sw and .357Sig models are interchangeable, but not with .45ACP due to the size of the caliber.

I am not sure how easy it will be to change the caliber.

And one should note that the Sig P250 that will be available in the USA is an improved version of the Sig P250DCc that is available in Europe for a few years.
 

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So they took the working mechanism out, and made it workable with all calibers, and then i suppose they make the "grip housing" cheaper....

What i want to know, is how they plan on changing the calibers on the upper half.... I know if they based the gun off .45, they will have the room to make them all work, BUT, do they have an interchangable "breach face/extractor" piece that is replaceable? If not, then that again means, you will ned the whole new barrel, slide, and spring assembly, and the only thing that you can change thats really "modular" is the grip housing...

ETA

It seems that the only thing this pistol offers, is a fully replaceable grip housing...


Seems to be a cheezy way of making different grip sizes available to me.... Couldn't they do the same thing, by making a stock version, with different grip sizes???


Sorry, if they could find a good way of making the same slide work on all 4 calibers, and frame sizes, then i might be impressed....


The P30, having replaceable backstrap, and side panels, not only allows you to change the grip circumfrence, but also the shape of the grip... And you dont have to buy a whole new grip housing, the gun comes with all the changeable inserts ;)
 

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I am of the notion that it is a feeble attempt to judge any handgun that one has not yet held much less shot. Some guns maybe very ugly or obtuse on paper, but shoot like champs when on the line.

With that said, I think the P250 is interesting, particularily the fact that it is SIGs attempt at a polymer pistol. With the recent changes to SIGarms it will be interesting to see if this gun lives up to the hype. I like SIGs but really only have put the old ones, P225 :), through it's paces. Solely based on the P225 I say SIG makes a good product. The reliability and function of the new P229 SCT in the family remains to be seen with subsequent trips to the range. I had the oppurtunity to purchase a SIG myself multiple times most noteably with my last purchase. However, I went with another USP. SIG seems nice but in my eyes it's still not an HK and thats what I have come to prefer, and the more SIG moves away from Germany the more I question their products.

I read in G&A that the trigger on the P250 will be DAK only but I was also told that they will be making a SA/DA variant as well. Any truth to this?
 

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The P250 will be DAO, not DAK. Sig is renowned for their triggers and a smooth 5lb DAO with short 3mm reset sounds not unlike the LEM. The advantage of the removeable frame/skeleton is the same serial #'d part for different calibers, but more importantly ease of maintenance. Having the ability to swap parts in minutes @ the individual or unit level armorer is an advantage for LE purchases especially. Sig's replacement grips will be in the $40 range. I was never a fan of the replaceable backstraps and perfer the more aggressive checkering on the P250. All I need is one grip and the compact grip for 9, is similar in size to the G19.

Sig get kudos from me for re-thinking the personalized grip. If you crack a grip , it's a $40 replacement, not a send back to for a new serial # grip/frame .
 

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My mistake. I thought DAK was DAO and their version of LEM? Any word on a SA/DA variant of the P250?

As you stated LE is the only area where I see interchangable grip frames being feasable. The normal civiallian is never going to break a frame, and if they do then I would be very wary of the guns overall durability. Switching the frames for the sole purpose of changing the feel of the grip seems very poor to me and it is obvious that HK has already trumped that method with it's own interchangable grip panels/backstraps that come with the gun (P2k, P30) and already lack the necessity of changing serial numbers. This seems to be alot more practical than replacing the entire frame and at extra cost.
 

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I'm not certain about the DA/SA availability. I would hope so.
Changing the size grip, will also increase/decrease mag capacity. I believe in addition to larger/smaller circumference, there will be grips that are longer/shorter increasing/decreasing mag capacity.
So for the cost of a new sub-compact grip and mags, you can have the equivalent of a P2000 and a P2000sk in the same serial #. Starting to look more attractive?

Edited....

DAK is DAO, but this DAO is not DAK.:) The P250 DAO is a simplier mechanism with a consistent pull weight after reset. DAK has 2 different wieght pulls depending on which reset is used (2 distinct clicks on the reset) Shorter reset in DAK is heavier, which is why I don't like it.
 
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