[Ingwe]

Hello Fellas,

I have been lurking here for a while now and just signed-up today...so hello to you all!

The blueing on my P7 PSP is shot and rust is begining to appear so time to have it finished. I have been spending ALLOT of time on google reading comments on the different finishes but I still can't make up my mind. Since I carry and shoot the gun, my primamry concern is a strong durable finish that is not going to wear off. I also want it to look as close to the factory blueing as possible so I rule out chrome.

Here's what I'm thinking so far, and I would love to get your insights to this:

1) Robar Roguard with NP3 on interior parts. Expensive, probably will be 400 bucks. I have read some negative comments about Robar cust service but everyone seems happy with the finish.

2) Rocky Mountian...Bearcoat. Spoke to the guy there who seemed to know P7's and was very good to talk to. $225 bucks. What I don't like is the fact that the finish is a spray on coating and I am wondering if it will wear or chip off in time, or change dimensions of the parts.

3) Coal Creek Isonite. I like the idea of this finish the BEST since it is IN the metal and NOT a coating, like the indestructable coating on my Glock. What I don't like is that the gun is plunged into a chemical bath at 1,000 degrees, and I am wondering if this will affect the metal...small parts. Although I have not spoken to anyone there yet, I do not see the P7 listed as a gun that they work on, so I do not want someone experimenting on mine!

So here we go. I would love to hear your comments and advice. I am not commited to any of these options yet and I am open to your suggestions with another gunsmith. I am not worried about the cost since I only plan on doing this once and will pay for quality.

Thanks Fellas!

Frank

 

[raydoctor]

I'm a fan of Robar's NP3 since my main concern was corrosion resistance and I don't mind the duct tape silver/gray finish. I also have a couple done in Melonite which is black and is also somewhat similar to Tennifer. I love the flat black color but the gentleman who did it (Drake's Gun Works) held back the smaller/thinner parts for the same concerns you express. I think Drake stopped doing P7s and works exclusively on 1911s now......it's a shame as he did a good job on P7s. If I were going to do another one in black, I'd look real hard at Birdsong Black-T.

 

[TGS]

Isonite/Melonite/HE/Tennifer are all some form of nitrocarburizing. Small parts cannot be nitrocarburized.....that's across the board for all small metal parts of all guns, not something specific to the P7. Actually, most small metal parts in general cannot be case hardened. Only the major parts on an M&P/Glock/HK are nitrocarburized. This is the best option to refinish your P7, IMO, as the small parts on a P7 are usually not prone to rust.

For silver(ish) I think Nickel Boron (like Ceraplate from CCR) is the best finish you could get, with NP3 coming in a close second. If you like those but don't have the money, then I think that matte Hard Chrome with brushed flats is the natural choice, and a damn good finish anyway. If you want black and want it to cover as many parts as possible, then I would look towards either Birdsong Black-T or Diamond Black which are both far more robust than any spray-n-bake coating.

P7 with IonBond Diamond Black: http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-handgun-talk/136635-ionbond-diamondblack-p7.html

P7 with Black-T: http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hkpro-members-gallery/105828-jack-king-p7-refinished-w-black-t.html

If you wanna'be a balla', I think the best job would be nitrocarburizing, but then send all the small parts for Black-T, NP3 or Nickel-Boron for their protection/lubricity traits. Totally unneeded, though.

 

[minimike]

I have a P7 PSP with Coal Creek 's melonite treatment as my daily carry. It's spent a lot of time in the woods when I'm chain sawing or hiking. Can't count how many times it's been soak by rain or sweat. The finish is rust proof; however, the matte black finish has worn thin on the edges. The PSP gets taken down and cleaned once a week. Or, after getting wet.

I once saw a Highway Patrol Officer's duty pistol that was rusted closed & could not be cleared. That really made an impression on me. That's one reason I went with melonite.

 

[Ingwe]

Good Stuff fellas and thanks for your time on this.

Ray...does the Roguard look like a "thick finish" or sonething like a ceracoat or Glock finish?

TGS..isn't the Black-T a spray on/bake finish?? Do you like the way it looks on your gun?

Mike...does your finish look like a coating, and did the treatment affect your small parts in any way?

 

[Chowser]

All my HKs have been done by Robar in their NP3.
On my P2000, I did the slide release levers in Roguard Black.
All have held up just fine.

HK USP Compact 357SIG with Robar NP3 on the slide/barrel/slide internals. (I just sent the slide in for this one)

That was in 2006, the gun has had over 10k rounds through it since refinishing. Still runs great. This is my beater gun. I let everyone shoot it, and I don't clean it.

HK P2000 357SIG with Robar NP3 on slide/barrel/slide internals/frame internals and Roguard Black on slide release levers (I sent the whole gun in and one magazine)

This was done in 2007. The trigger parts have been NP3'd, the trigger is smooth! I did the same to my 45.


HK USP Compact .45ACP with Robar NP3 on slide/barrel/slide internals/frame internals (I sent the whole gun in)

That was done in 2010.

All my HKs are DA/SA. I tried the LEM for a while on my USPC357 but didn't like it so I switched it back.

Basically, all my HKs go to Robar for NP3 and all my Glocks go to CCR for CPII.

 

[TGS]

TGS..isn't the Black-T a spray on/bake finish?? Do you like the way it looks on your gun?

Sorry, I should have been more clear. When I say "Spray-n-bake finish" I'm usually referring to resin finishes like Duracoat (or whatever name whatever company wants to put on their own version of duracoat). Duracoat is great if you're a hobbyist and rarely handle/shoot/carry your gun, but it wears extremely quickly. There's a reason it's so cheap. There's better types of that finish, like what CZ applies to their handguns, and Cerakote which is ceramic based. I owned a CZ, and while their resin finish (which is applied over top parkerizing) is pretty robust, it is also pretty slick when wet....slick as in, "Holy crap I'm having trouble racking the slide!" sort of slick. But hey, I figure if I'm spending the money to send a gun out and get refinished, then I might as well get the best like nitrocarburizing, Black-T or IonBond Diamond Black.

Black-T is not a "spray-n-bake" finish. The "T" stands for teflon, as far as I know. I do not have it on any of my guns, but all the guns I've seen with it look nice. I had linked to a thread with some pictures so you could make up your own decision as to how it looks, though.

To help address your question to Ray.......I do believe he was speaking about Robar's NP3 (nickel-teflon), not Robar's Roguard. Roguard is a resin duracoat-like finish.

 

[minimike]

Mike...does your finish look like a coating, and did the treatment affect your small parts in any way?

It looks like parkerizing.

 

[SemperFuzz]

Robar NP3+ For the Win i have used them for 25 years the stuff is DynoMite !

 

[Ingwe]

Hey Fellas,
Thanks again for all of your imput. I THINK that I am going to go with Robar....Roguard on the outside with NP3 on the internals. I was very impressed after speaking to a guy there for about 20 minutes who answered all of my questions and explained it all to me.

He also told me that Roguard in satin will be a very close match to factory finish. What also impressed me was that he said they do about 5 P7's a week.

I'll let you know how I make out when I do it.

 

[Brahma]

BE AWARE that if you have the P7 internals done in NP3 or NP3+ that the slide catch will be silver, because it is "internal" and they can't do a single part in two finishes. I was aware of this and specifically wrote on my order form in CAPITALS, and clarified SEVERAL TIMES by phone before work started that they do my slide catch in Roguard to match the rest of my P7, and after three months, I got a beautiful Roguard Black Matte P7 returned to me with a silver slide catch. For my money, the wait, and specific written and verbal instructions, I had hoped they employed literate employees, but I guess not.

Is it a crisis? Not really, but I am still PO'd and won't recommend Roguard for the above reasons.

 

[Ingwe]

Brahma,

I read what you said about the slide catch before and thanks for the warning!

Other than that...do you like the job that they did???

How does the Roguard match factory finish?

 

[Marsh]

I bought this with finished with Duracoat. It looked good, but then I started carrying it and the finihed is beginning to wear badly, so, as mentioned it is not good for useing. It loks like Black T as also mentioned is the best for carry.
My guestion is; does it take metal off when it's refinished so the serial #, etc is harded to read and also how much would it cost to do mine?
Marsh

 

[Brahma]

Brahma,

I read what you said about the slide catch before and thanks for the warning!

Other than that...do you like the job that they did???

How does the Roguard match factory finish?

Roguard Matte Black looks nice, but honestly, nothing will match the factory finish, unless it was nickel to begin with. That being said, the Roguard looks great, but will cover any worn stamping marks- serial or proof marks for example. Also, look closely at the inevitable scratches on your frame that is caused by normal use of the cocking mechanism right by the front edge of the grips- those become somewhat pronounced after finishing, and I think it is where I tighented a grip screw too tight that and that scratched the finish very lightly on the cocker. Any finish would probably do that though. I also managed to scratch it the first time I shot it and pulled the slide off to clean it- rotating the slide up and over the rear caused the front of the slide to rotate down and scratch where they refinished the frame. I mention this only because I read all about how "hard" the finish was. Again, I would think anything would scratch if you aren't careful, but take their claims with a grain of salt. The NP3+ on the internals was worth doing, even if the visible portion of the slide catch is silver colored. That stuff really does wipe clean! However, they can't do the barrel or obviously the piston chamber- just the "working internals". I think that alone preserved my P7 from corroding forever. However, I think a total job- slide and all, would look horrible in NP3+- it's a dull, grey silver. I also forgot to mention I had them install new Trijicon sights which are very accurate and great, but they didn't send my originals back!

For the cost and the wait, and the disappointment I would be SOMEWHAT hesitant to do it again. My P7 was very "plum", and their finish did preserve it for the future, but I don't expect to ever sell it and get a return for their refinish job, and neither should you. I put Nill walnut "Rhomulas" on it and it is a very nice looking piece. I just hope they treat you better.

One last thing- if you are going to put this kind of money into it and plan to keep it, invest in a horsehide leather holster to help preserve what you paid for. With the Roguard, sights and Nill's, I have almost $1,500 in it and always planned to keep it, but because of that, like every HK I have, I put them in nothing but horsehide so they don't wear excessively during carry. I prefer Kramer Horsehide IWB #3. There is nothing that makes my skin crawl than to read about expensive firearms slapped into cheap holsters.