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Discussion Starter #1
This is probably a question for the P7 experts of which there are several on this forum.

I should preface this by saying that I won't own a pistol I can't carry. So if it is to valuable, I won't buy it. Hence my questions really are based on carrying.

I was struggling looking for P7M13 specs recently since there was one for sale. We just don't get to see them locally. Heck it has been a while since I have seen an P7M8 here, so long that I can't remember much even about that one.

Anyway what specs I could find were like wiki specs. I was a little surprised by the size of the 13. Not to say it is a large pistol by any means but seemed relatively similar to the P30 for example while it must not be as bulky as a P30.....no P-rail etc etc. Still the specs suggested it to be larger than I expected.

The wiki specs had the M8 at 1.1" wide and the M13 at 1.3" wide for example. I am guessing that the difference must be the magazine but I thought I would ask.

Wiki specs also had the barrel length the same for both the 8 and the 13 but showed a longer overall length for the 13 (6.9") than the 8 (6.7"). So in that case I really don't have a ready made answer like I have for the width difference and the mag capacities.

Height is shown at greater for the 13 than the 8 but there again I attribute that to mag capacity. Anyway it is the length that I cannot really attribute to anything. Can somebody comment on the length difference. I may or may not jump at a chance to get another 13 but might try to get an 8. Maybe should have jumped at the 13 but I figured by the time I got the dims figured out it would be gone.
 

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I used to own a P7M10 and I honestly don't think the P7's are all they're cracked up to be. The hype about the lower felt recoil was a bunch of crap. My M10 recoiled harder than my Beretta Cougar, Sig 229, and my P2000 did, by a long shot. I totally understand that the 9mm versions are much shorter and lighter then my M10 was but still wouldn't own another one. The comfort of the grip compared to the P2000's and P30's are not even comparable. Unless you want one just to own one, I would get a 9mm P2000 and carry the hell out of it. That way when it gets scratched up from carrying it, you won't care.

BTW, if I was ever to buy another P7, it would be the M13. I would feel totally under gunned with only 9rds of 9mm. Good luck on your purchase.
 

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The length is the same, the grip is longer & thicker on the M13. I like to shoot the M13 a tad more and I like the way the M8 carries a tad better.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
thanks 01. That makes more sense. Like I said the wiki data has the barrel length the same and the overall length different. I sure could not figure it out.
 

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I have to agree with 01, I have all three the PSP, M8 and the M13. At first I thought I needed the hi cap mags for more rounds but found that the M8 & PSP carries better and conceals much nicer. So that is why you have to consider these issues. I also understand what ptech is saying about the M10. The M10 wasn't as popular but also is .40 cal. The 9mm fires much softer and feels nicer. I don't own a .40 M10 nor wish to. I think it's ugly and it distorts the actual look of the original design of the pistol. I carry the M 13 now and enjoy shooting it. In my opinion I really don't feel you cn go wrong in any choice you make in these pistols.
 

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My favorite is the elegant and uncluttered P7. The main advantage of the M8, IMHO, is the superbly quick magazine release. But if I'm that interested in the mag changing issue, I'll go ahead and carry the M13 with its extra five rounds.
Yes, the M8 and M13 are the same length, both a tad / insignicantly longer than the P7.
Agreed the M10, 'er, could have been designed a little differently.
Just my .02.
Scott
 

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I've owned a P7M8 and still own a P7M13.

I like shooting the M13, but only when I can let it cool down between strings of fire. (I sometimes shoot it ESP in IDPA.) I'm not a huge fan of the P7 line as a carry pistol. They seem to me to be quite heavy, and in the best carry model (the M8/PSP line), you're round limited in a caliber that offers many choices in higher round count or lighter/smaller pistols with the same round count.

They're fine shooting guns, but since I won't carry the M8 daily, I go with the M13.
 

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I carried an M13 for years on duty and never felt under-gunned. There's nothing like the P7 line of firearms as a combat firearm. For most folks, the 8-round versions are a better bet for concealed carry purposes. Don't get me wrong, I've owned and fired most all of HK's handgun offerings. I own USPs, several HK45/45c handguns, but my all-time favorite weapon is the M13.

As to the original question, the M13 is slightly longer due to the slightly taller handgrip. The extra capacity is more due to the double stack design. The slides are completely interchangeably between the M8 and M13 guns.
 

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I used to own a P7M10 and I honestly don't think the P7's are all they're cracked up to be. The hype about the lower felt recoil was a bunch of crap. My M10 recoiled harder than my Beretta Cougar, Sig 229, and my P2000 did, by a long shot. I totally understand that the 9mm versions are much shorter and lighter then my M10 was but still wouldn't own another one.
You're basing your "felt recoil" experiences on a weapon with a completely different caliber, taller slide, and bore axis, compared to the O.P.'s questions...
Apples to oranges.
 

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You're basing your "felt recoil" experiences on a weapon with a completely different caliber, taller slide, and bore axis, compared to the O.P.'s questions...
Apples to oranges.
I understand that, but HK didn't say that the P7's, other than the M10's, are softer recoiling than other guns of the same caliber did they? The other guns of mine that I compared the recoil were all 40 caliber.

You also left out some of my post where I stated that the grip of the P7's is not that comfortable. You also might want to look into the reason why the New Jersey State Police stopped using the P7's.
 

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+1 on the M8...I got the priviledge of manhandling 3 magazines through a friends Dad's daily carry M8 a few weeks back and I am jonesing for one now! If functioned flawlessly and was much easier to control than I expected....

He commented that he's got between 900 and 1000 rounds through the pistol with ZERO malfunctions--and he carries it daily
 

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I understand that, but HK didn't say that the P7's, other than the M10's, are softer recoiling than other guns of the same caliber did they? The other guns of mine that I compared the recoil were all 40 caliber.
Honestly I dunno? Did they?
Also, I wasn't aware that you were comparing the M10 to other .40 handguns.....

You also left out some of my post where I stated that the grip of the P7's is not that comfortable. You also might want to look into the reason why the New Jersey State Police stopped using the P7's.
I dunno, the P7's grip is pretty comfortable IMHO...
 

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The USPark Police still carried the M13 last I saw but may have changed to another HK since it is no longer made. My friend on the force there was on swat and he and his men still had them. The NJSP stopped carrying for many reasons. A great friend who passed on and a Lt. From NJSP stated there was several reasons why they stopped carrying the gun. One, guys were taping the grip to keep the pistol cocked at all times. Two, some guys never maintained the weapon and resulted in springs rusting and breaking in which one trooper was killed due to some neglect if I recall him correctly. Three, the parts were long in getting from HK to maintain the pistols etc. so on with several other reasons. They also tested Glocks and had issues with feeding believe it or not and that was the reason they never went Glock. I don't know what they use now since he has passed on but last I knew they were re- issuing the HK P7 M8 to the men until they decided to come up with a replacement. Maybe Sig? Don't know. But being a P7 fan, it is by far the best combat pistol ever designed for that purpose. Hands down this was not made to dress up with Wilson parts or high grip bever tails or what have you. It was made for one reason and one reason only, COMBAT. It is not for target practice or to put pearl grips on so one can hang in a Louisiana pimp house. I have researched on this gun extensively which I recommend all to do. Some have who are on this sight and are very knowledgeable. There are many experienced people and are very eager to help or guide you to make a better choice. This is one of the better forums. Even people who have worked for HK and were involved with this pistol in many ways. Good luck with your choice.
 

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I prefer both the M8, and PSP over the M13 due to the size of the grip. Many years ago, when you'd see pristine, used M8, and M13's in gun shops I handled both and chose a LNIB M8 over the M13. Nothing wrong with the M13. I just thought the M8 felt better balance, and easier to carry. I am also very comfortable with nine rounds of 9MM for self defense.
 

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One, guys were taping the grip to keep the pistol cocked at all times.
This isn't a reason to stop carrying a pistol. This is a reason to conduct remedial training, smack someone upside the head, or both. As to troopers taping their gun, being a son of a NJ State Trooper, I'd have a hard time believing that. I'd ask XTrooper if he ever saw troopers with their cocking assemblies taped down.

Two, some guys never maintained the weapon and resulted in springs rusting and breaking in which one trooper was killed due to some neglect if I recall him correctly.
No.

The reliability problem stemmed from using 147gr ammo in the P7. This is the incident that spurred a massive investigation into why the P7 failed on Trooper Gonzalez, who was only able to fire 7 rounds, then suffering a stoppage. G3Kurz, a member here, was part of that investigation. The reason for the nose-up jam is due to over-function (too much impulse in the cycle of operation) with using 147gr, combined with out of spec pistons. Their pistols were 18 years old.

Three, the parts were long in getting from HK to maintain the pistols
I can see that. Even major, well known, highly popularized tactical teams have had trouble with maintaining the required parts for HK's. Nyeti has some stories about that ordeal.

I don't know what they use now since he has passed on but last I knew they were re- issuing the HK P7 M8 to the men until they decided to come up with a replacement. Maybe Sig? Don't know.
After the death of Trooper Gonzalez and subsequent investigations, the NJSP adopted the SW99 9mm for its obvious advantages as an agency-wide service pistol. Unfortunately, S&W decided to change some stuff in the design, resulting in a complete rusty-coat-hanger-abortion excuse for a pistol. The result was them handing out the P7M8's again for a short time until they adopted the SIG P228 in 9mm which they've carried since.
 

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"TGS, Defender of the P7 faith..." :biggrin:
 

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"TGS, Defender of the P7 faith..." :biggrin:
Funny enough, I'm a huge fan-boy of the pistol. Still, I sold mine because there was no reason to actually carry it instead of my P2000. If I could actually wrap my paws around an M13, and they didn't cost as much as a new BMW, I'd probably be carrying them instead.

They're as easy to shoot to incredible levels of accuracy as a 1911 is.....except they actually work without thousands of dollars of custom work.
 
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