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Discussion Starter #1
So, I'm curious how many of you have done this. I'm seriously considering doing it myself, since I'm not entirely sure I feel like dealing with a pistol build (as I am currently) in this profile.

Things to consider for me are the fact that I have the exact flash hider I want, and I cannot really imagine wanting to change it. It's capable of fitting a suppressor if I felt like going that route. I am *mildly* concerned that such an alteration (even done with silver solder by a professional) would cause some depreciation in value, however that is kinda balanced out by the fact that I cannot imagine a circumstance that would cause me to actually sell the 416, short of the loss of both my arms. That being said, I see a lot of people just chopping the sling loops off the gas block anyway, which I imagine would be just as much a thorn in a collector's side.

I already have it configured as a pistol. Honestly, If I want another AR pistol, I can probably just start over.

Advice or input is more than welcome.
 

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I did it to a 14.5" 416 about three weeks ago. Had Tom Bostic do it for me. I didn't want to have to SBR another lower and I will have SureFire suppressors so like you don't see needing another flash hider.


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Discussion Starter #3
I did it to a 14.5" 416 about three weeks ago. Had Tom Bostic do it for me. I didn't want to have to SBR another lower and I will have SureFire suppressors so like you don't see needing another flash hider.


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Which method did he use to pin it? Are there any regrets?

I'll be honest, the thing is pretty unwieldy when you can't shoulder it, which is part of my major motivation to consider it (as well as having Stock Options, puns intended). However the legal leeway to be had from making it a pistol seems kinda good, especially since I'll be moving soon and fear the shift of some state laws regarding rifles.
 

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Which method did he use to pin it? Are there any regrets?

I'll be honest, the thing is pretty unwieldy when you can't shoulder it, which is part of my major motivation to consider it (as well as having Stock Options, puns intended). However the legal leeway to be had from making it a pistol seems kinda good, especially since I'll be moving soon and fear the shift of some state laws regarding rifles.
Method, not sure of "method" used. The SureFire FH (WarComp for 556) already has a hole for pinning. So he pinned it through that and not sure what welding method was used. It looks just fine. I have no regrets and the entire rifle is fully transferable as a Title 1 rifle.
 

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I did it to a 14.5" 416 about three weeks ago. Had Tom Bostic do it for me. I didn't want to have to SBR another lower and I will have SureFire suppressors so like you don't see needing another flash hider.


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+1 for Tom. He did one that was so damn good I had to ask to be certain it was pinned. Only when a light was shinned on a angle could you see any hint of the weld over the pin.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
So... Any idea how this will affect the value of my upper? Is there any unforeseen consequences I should be worried about? Is it blasphemy?
 

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So... Any idea how this will affect the value of my upper? Is there any unforeseen consequences I should be worried about? Is it blasphemy?
Zero effect. If you ever "have to" take it off....it can be done too.
 

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Zero effect. If you ever "have to" take it off....it can be done too.
I disagree. A pinned FH upper will never see top dollar. As it's been "altered".


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I disagree. A pinned FH upper will never see top dollar. As it's been "altered".


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Here's the thing, in most cases I will agree with you. For example; If you take a NIB HK94, chop the barrel down, put a 3 lug on it and SBR it, you're not going to get the same dime. On a {for example} AF date coded 14.5" upper, you're not going to change the value by one dime. IF IT IS DONE CORRECTLY, it can be removed, albeit with great effort, the original flash hider put back on, and you will never know the difference. I know, I've removed one after I SBR'd it, and began utilizing a suppressor that required a Surefire flash hider. I later sold it for more than I purchased it.

And yes....I provided full disclosure, and even offered the longer flash hider. I'm guessing the OP wants to actually use the upper without needing to SBR it, in which this won't effect the value like, say, perhaps...painting it? Now THAT will greatly diminish the value.
 

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Pinning a muzzle device on a 14.5" 416 upper

Would I do it to an investment upper, no. But I don't need to pin an investment upper as I have a SBR'd lower to legally own one and it would never be attached to a lower to begin with.

I'll only pin shooters so I only have to have 1 engraved lower and still be able to take the whole collection to the range.

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Discussion Starter #11
On a {for example} AF date coded 14.5" upper, you're not going to change the value by one dime. IF IT IS DONE CORRECTLY, it can be removed, albeit with great effort, the original flash hider put back on, and you will never know the difference. I know, I've removed one after I SBR'd it, and began utilizing a suppressor that required a Surefire flash hider. I later sold it for more than I purchased it.

And yes....I provided full disclosure, and even offered the longer flash hider. I'm guessing the OP wants to actually use the upper without needing to SBR it, in which this won't effect the value like, say, perhaps...painting it? Now THAT will greatly diminish the value.
Exactly right on my date code and length. Also my motivations. I don't want to deal with the SBR paperwork, and I find the pistol configuration to be slightly more annoying than I anticipated due to the overall weight. Ultimately, I doubt I'd ever sell it. It will be loved for a long time. The "IF IT IS DONE CORRECTLY" part is pretty crucial to my decision to go through with it. Anything I should know?
 

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I disagree. A pinned FH upper will never see top dollar. As it's been "altered".


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Yea I'd think it would lower the value as well. People paying the money they are for those uppers are not going to have as big of an issue with the sbr lowers as a normal person might. Some might prefer it but I'd think it would hurt the value some.
 

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Exactly right on my date code and length. Also my motivations. I don't want to deal with the SBR paperwork, and I find the pistol configuration to be slightly more annoying than I anticipated due to the overall weight. Ultimately, I doubt I'd ever sell it. It will be loved for a long time. The "IF IT IS DONE CORRECTLY" part is pretty crucial to my decision to go through with it. Anything I should know?
Pook:

According to your post, you and I are on the EXACT same page. There are only "so many" 14.5" 416 uppers, and most are within your date code and most of which are being utilized as you have described.

So, at the point of the "best" pinning of uppers.....I'll leave that to the Rain men in the 416 industry. I "personally" do not have a preferred vender as I typically SBR my upper/lower configurations. Soooo.....hey guys....how about a hand here @JNAP94, @Nzfly, @nsheers....and I've forgotten a few screen names {sorry T....couldn't find or recall your screen name....JNAP....need some help here!!!!!} that also have very pertinent information. I'm hoping that the ones I've listed can assist, as I'M CERTAIN they know who I'm referring to.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Worth asking: approximately how many of these uppers are in private hands, anyway?
 

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Would I do it to an investment upper, no. But I don't need to pin an investment upper as I have a SBR'd lower to legally own one and it would never be attached to a lower to begin with.

I'll only pin shooters so I only have to have 1 engraved lower and still be able to take the whole collection to the range.

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You have proven my point....EXACTLY. In other words, the OP is utilizing {probably...just guessing} an AF date coded upper that is 14.5", and doesn't want the head ache or time regarding an NFA SBR....just Pin a 2" flash hider, and you're good to go. In the end....if you want to sell....just remove the Pinned flash hider, and re-install the original flash hider. Just make sure that you disclose to buyer....and it's all over.
 

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Worth asking: approximately how many of these uppers are in private hands, anyway?
No clue...I'd PM the members listed above. They have more intel on these than I. I know that the AF are easier to obtain than most. Also, most 14.5" uppers (from what I've experienced) are AF date coded also.
 

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Exactly right on my date code and length. Also my motivations. I don't want to deal with the SBR paperwork, and I find the pistol configuration to be slightly more annoying than I anticipated due to the overall weight. Ultimately, I doubt I'd ever sell it. It will be loved for a long time. The "IF IT IS DONE CORRECTLY" part is pretty crucial to my decision to go through with it. Anything I should know?
Pook,

Let's start off with How many?

Answer;

Enough that we were not able to even come close to keeping track, especially AF Date Coded 14.5" uppers, there were a lot!! By the time you get to AI date code they were pretty rare to find by then. I regret selling all my BNIB AI 14.5" uppers.


It's effect on Value?

Answer;

Really not that much when they are done right which is to say the pin is only set in the most minimal amount making it easily drilled out and reversed. Honestly, if it was/is BNIB shooting it some would effect the value more. Once you have shot it or made up your mind to shoot it it's really not that huge of a deal o pin the FB. If you had a BNIB AI or B prefix date coded upper and you purchased it as a collector, I would say slap a pistol lower and brce on it.

I will have to get back to you on who can and will do the best pin and weld job as the only one I had to pin was back in 2006 and I didn't consider the long term value of the upper back then..

I am falling asleep, but I hope that helps some. I will revisit the post tomorrow when my eyes are open!!��
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Pook,

Let's start off with How many?

Answer;

Enough that we were not able to even come close to keeping track, especially AF Date Coded 14.5" uppers, there were a lot!! By the time you get to AI date code they were pretty rare to find by then. I regret selling all my BNIB AI 14.5" uppers.


It's effect on Value?

Answer;

Really not that much when they are done right which is to say the pin is only set in the most minimal amount making it easily drilled out and reversed. Honestly, if it was/is BNIB shooting it some would effect the value more. Once you have shot it or made up your mind to shoot it it's really not that huge of a deal o pin the FB. If you had a BNIB AI or B prefix date coded upper and you purchased it as a collector, I would say slap a pistol lower and brce on it.

I will have to get back to you on who can and will do the best pin and weld job as the only one I had to pin was back in 2006 and I didn't consider the long term value of the upper back then..

I am falling asleep, but I hope that helps some. I will revisit the post tomorrow when my eyes are open!!��
Thanks for popping in!

I have fired it, and it was fired (probably a good amount) before it came into my possession. It's not a pristine safe queen, but rather spent some time with a large SWAT team on the west coast, and I intend to make it my go-to tool if the need for one ever arises. I'd be lying if my mind wasn't at least a little on the side of collecting, but I'd rather have a good reliable tool than a conversation starter. Part of my thoughts about this stemmed from hearing that a lot of people were cutting off the sling points on the gas block, particularly those who have them as duty weapons (and even saw something about HK doing the removal right at the factory?), and figured that if cutting those off is an acceptable modification for our best, then who am I to really wince about something that will afford me more personalized use?

Currently it is sitting on a pistol lower with a brace, and I find it to be an awkward set up. Not having the ability to shoulder it is more significant than I think it would be with a lighter upper with less felt recoil. My flash hider is the AAC 51T, which I think would firmly put me in the safe zone with regards to barrel length. A local shop in my area has a guy they STRONGLY recommend to do that type of work, whom apparently uses "silver solder" to get it done? I must confess that I am a neophyte about that particular subject, but they claim that it is a very subtle technique, and can be undone if desired at a later time. Honestly, I would be hard pressed to think of a flash hider I would want to replace my current with, and my only regret there is that I can't get a bayonet over the thing.
 

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Thanks for popping in!

I have fired it, and it was fired (probably a good amount) before it came into my possession. It's not a pristine safe queen, but rather spent some time with a large SWAT team on the west coast, and I intend to make it my go-to tool if the need for one ever arises. I'd be lying if my mind wasn't at least a little on the side of collecting, but I'd rather have a good reliable tool than a conversation starter. Part of my thoughts about this stemmed from hearing that a lot of people were cutting off the sling points on the gas block, particularly those who have them as duty weapons (and even saw something about HK doing the removal right at the factory?), and figured that if cutting those off is an acceptable modification for our best, then who am I to really wince about something that will afford me more personalized use?

Currently it is sitting on a pistol lower with a brace, and I find it to be an awkward set up. Not having the ability to shoulder it is more significant than I think it would be with a lighter upper with less felt recoil. My flash hider is the AAC 51T, which I think would firmly put me in the safe zone with regards to barrel length. A local shop in my area has a guy they STRONGLY recommend to do that type of work, whom apparently uses "silver solder" to get it done? I must confess that I am a neophyte about that particular subject, but they claim that it is a very subtle technique, and can be undone if desired at a later time. Honestly, I would be hard pressed to think of a flash hider I would want to replace my current with, and my only regret there is that I can't get a bayonet over the thing.
No worries then, do your thing!! Some states require the "pin and weld" method as apposed to the "SILVER SOLDER" method. At that point it really is a no brainer to have it done. Your truly not affecting the value much at all.

As far as the sling loops being cut off yes, on the newer B prefix date coded uppers, the factory has cut and refinished the sling loops off the gas blocks. A lot of people cut there's so the Geissele or Remington Defense RAHG rails will fit on them.

People I know that have pinned and welded a FH or MB on have not lost much if any value if they are using the gun. A lot of people have Suppressors that will work with the AAC 51T FH so that is a bonus also.
 
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