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Discussion Starter #1
Are any USPs truly "pre-ban as far as high capacity magazines are concerned? I know they were introduced in 1993 so some hi-cap mags must be out there. Here in NY, a hi-cap magazine cannot be possessed which was manufactured after Sept. 13, 1994. I am particularly interested in .40 and .45 caliber full-size guns.

Thanks!

Tim
 

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Yes there are USP Fullsize .40 s&W's available. The USP Fullsize .45 acp didn't come out until after the ban started.
 

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Tim, it'll be tough for you to date those mags unless you have the gun to go with it. And if you are in NYC, forget about even owning them.
 

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While that is the HK line, there were USP 45s out and so were their mags, before the ban took place. This has been argued about a lot but not lately and I doubt a search would turn up info.
Short story, dealers ON THIS BOARD reported having USP .45s in stock along with mags before the ban went into affect even though the official HK line is they did not exist. Several dealers on here know otherwise.
In 9mm and .40 there are a lot of pre-ban mags out there but the .45s are indeed far and few in between. Thing is, how does one tell a pre-ban from an unmarked post ban? Many pre-ban mags (early USP mags) had date codes on them but then again, many didn't. The only way to be 100% certain that you are indeed getting a pre-ban mag is if you can find a mag with the date code "ir" (93) or "ie" (94). If it has no "ban" markings on it and is date coded "ie" then you should be safe in assuming it is a pre-ban 45 mag.
One must be careful though because current mags as well as many pre-bans are not marked with date codes.
The absolutely safe route to take is to treat all USP 45 mags as ban mags if you live in a non-free state. How to prove a 9mm or .40 mag is pre-ban you run into the same difficulties. You almost have to find one with the date code of "ie" or "ir" to be reasonably certain it is a pre-ban. But the mag codes have never officially been released so there is no real way to prove that these date codes mean what we think they do and HK will not confirm one way or the other.
 

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That seems relatively...dumb. I think that limiting the mag capacity to, what is it 10 rounds? Is rediculous. I can understand them not wanting the genreal public have 20 or 25 round mags for hand guns, okay, but what is the difference between having one 12 round mag and having three or four 10 round mags? I say thank God that I live in Arizona.:44:
 

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It's all about incremental erosion of our rights...bit by tiny bit. The vast majority of opponents to anything that has ever been protested or banned know nothing about the items in question. We live in a country where they have to mark individual coffee cups explaining to the idiots that 'contents are hot'! If they'd just let evolution do its thing the 'God vs Darwin' would be a no brainer.

The best protest footage I have ever seen was Kevin Smith being interviewed protesting Dogma, by the way. Fricken' hysterical! :380:
 

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I saw that Kevin Smith interview on one his DVDs. It's classic.

FWIW, my old USP .40 had two factory pre-ban mags marked with the month and year. It has since been sold. My current AG dated USP. 45 has mags which are not marked as far as I can tell. Should a new ban come into effect there would be no way to know when they were made.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks, guys. I'll tread lightly. I want to buy a H&K in one of these calibers, and I needed some insight into magazine manufacture dates.

Oddly, the nativity of the guns themselves doesn't seem to matter to NYS--the prohibition is against "high-capacity feeding devices", i.e. magazines.

Very helpful. Thanks again.

Tim
 

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It's all about incremental erosion of our rights...bit by tiny bit. The vast majority of opponents to anything that has ever been protested or banned know nothing about the items in question. We live in a country where they have to mark individual coffee cups explaining to the idiots that 'contents are hot'! If they'd just let evolution do its thing the 'God vs Darwin' would be a no brainer.

The best protest footage I have ever seen was Kevin Smith being interviewed protesting Dogma, by the way. Fricken' hysterical! :380:
More than that, it's an erosion that has absolutely no effect on "safety". There have been plenty of shootings with 10 round mags. It's not any more beneficial than outlawing flash hiders, pistol grips, bayonette lugs, or any of the other ugly banned features.

But just a historical point on the McDonalds coffee lawsuit - McDonald's lost that case because there were thousands of complaints that their coffee was too hot, but they never reduced the temperature. They kept it at almost 200F. In the lawsuit they lost, it was an elderly lady that spilled the coffee, and she had 2nd and almost 3rd degree burns on her wrinkly old lady inner thighs and, uh, surrounding areas.

You want stupid warning labels - look at those butane lighters used to light BBQ grills - "Caution, do not use around open flame." I'm waiting for each bullet to have "Caution, may cause serious bodily injury or death" engraved on the casing. I'm surprised someone hasn't already proposed it, firearms have safety warnings now, better mark the bullets as well.
 

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That seems relatively...dumb. I think that limiting the mag capacity to, what is it 10 rounds? Is rediculous. I can understand them not wanting the genreal public have 20 or 25 round mags for hand guns, okay, but what is the difference between having one 12 round mag and having three or four 10 round mags? I say thank God that I live in Arizona.:44:
What is the difference with the general public having access to 2 10 round mags or 1 20 round mag?

Magazine limits are stupid and are innefective at stopping crime.
 

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Ah yeah good point on that coffee deal. I do vaguely rem that suit was brought and won by a little ole' lady.

Speaking of the 'safety' angle concerning our reasoning for laws in general...I got a speeding ticket at 1am on a Tuesday night. Not a car on the road...other than the blacked out LEO that reamed me for the 12 mph over he claimed I was going. I always set my cruise to 50mph on that 2 mile straight stretch of 45mph divided 4 lane. He kept telling me any number of things could cause an accident at that high rate of speed! He wrote me out a $162 ticket. If the local government needs money that bad why not just come out and say 'hey we're broke, give us more money'. $42 of it was for some "victim's fund" bs. I thought ticketing wasn't supposed to be used as a direct source to fund programs...musta' been quota day? It's not that I am against individual LEO's, but the tendency to blindly do as we're told by those with all that power to lose just bothers me. Nobody has the authority or the desire to actually make a decision based on circumstances. The slow road to a police state scares the bejesus out of me. The unjustified use of deadly force by the police in the last 50ish years doesn't bode well for our future as free people. Not that we're actually free as it stands now.

Blah sorry to go all ranty and hijack a perfectly good thread. I don't even know the answer to the OP's question!

Byte
 

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HK has retracted their claim that there were no pre ban SOCOM 12 round magazines. There is a printed statement out there about that. This came up after they claimed that there were none and anyone who had 12 round unmarked SOCOM mags were in posession of magazines that had been stolen from the U.S. Government. Someone confronted HK with some proof that they had imported a small lot of these mags in the six months leading up to the ban. I'll see if I can find it in my archives. I got it because I bought 2 of these mags about 5 years ago from STG Supply. The going rate back then was $125.00 each!! I don't think they have any markings at all. God, I love Arizona!
 

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What is the difference with the general public having access to 2 10 round mags or 1 20 round mag?

Magazine limits are stupid and are innefective at stopping crime.
Most gun control laws are stupid and inneffective at stopping crime. Of course, who says stopping crime is their intention?

Join the NRA.
 

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Most gun control laws are stupid and inneffective at stopping crime. Of course, who says stopping crime is their intention?

Join the NRA.
Its just another transition on the road from citizen to subject.
 

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It's easy here in Western New York, I can have pre-ban hi-caps as long as there are no LEO markings. The date codes on USP magazines are not consistant or understandable. I have USP40F magazines I got before the ban that seem to have post-94 date codes. What's up with that?

I am not sure about NYC laws, but out here in the hinterlands, we have some fun toys.

JPG
 

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Most gun control laws are stupid and inneffective at stopping crime. Of course, who says stopping crime is their intention?

Join the NRA.
True. But I dont understand the logic that 12 rounds is ok, 10 rounds is stupid, and 20 rounds is to much.

The NRA is not for me. They compromise to much for my tastes. I will be joining the local groups and SAF.
 

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True. But I dont understand the logic that 12 rounds is ok, 10 rounds is stupid, and 20 rounds is to much.

The NRA is not for me. They compromise to much for my tastes. I will be joining the local groups and SAF.
While I agree that they do compromise too much when they should stand firm, they are by far the most powerful gun rights lobby in the nation. GOA - Gun Owners of America is much more like HK's motto - NO COMPROMISE! Join both!
 
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