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Discussion Starter #1
I really like my PTR-91. It is very accurate out of the box and soft shooting for a .308. However the only feature I dislike is the magazine release. It is a push-button like an AR-15 but I vastly prefer the HK-91 style latch mag release. I am used to the latch style on the Mini-14, which works very well, and changing mags with this push-button on the PTR is aggrevating. Is there any way to install a latch mag release on the PTR-91? Has anyone done this?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for the info. But that site mentions it might be illegal to install on the PTR and I don't want to fall out of compliance. I guess I need to look into this a bit furthur because I cannot have any conflict with federal BATF law or the Connecticut state assualt weapons ban, on which the HK-91 is directly named. I am unsure at this point if modifying this rifle with one simple feature like a magazine release would make it illegal. Anyone who could shed some light on this feel free to speak up.

If it is possible I would have no problems getting an HK armourer to do the job right. I would rather have it done right and look good then start hacking away at my rifle to install a drop on part myself.
 

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I had IGF install a factory paddle mag release on my G3K clone, which uses a JLD/PTR receiver...

 

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Discussion Starter #6
I would also like to know.

The HK-91 is directly named on the CT assualt weapons list. Some of the main differences between the PTR and the HK-91 are the heavy target barrel on the PTR as well as the lack of the latch mag. release. I'm thinking that these slight differences are the only things keeping the PTR off the list. Anyone who could shed some light on this is welcome to respond.

This is the law... (and I hate it!)

Sec. 53-202a. Assault weapons: Definition. (a) As used in this section and sections 53-202b to 53-202k, inclusive, "assault weapon" means:



(1) Any selective-fire firearm capable of fully automatic, semiautomatic or burst fire at the option of the user or any of the following specified semiautomatic firearms: Algimec Agmi; Armalite AR-180; Australian Automatic Arms SAP Pistol; Auto-Ordnance Thompson type; Avtomat Kalashnikov AK-47 type; Barrett Light-Fifty model 82A1; Beretta AR-70; Bushmaster Auto Rifle and Auto Pistol; Calico models M-900, M-950 and 100-P; Chartered Industries of Singapore SR-88; Colt AR-15 and Sporter; Daewoo K-1, K-2, Max-1 and Max-2; Encom MK-IV, MP-9 and MP-45; Fabrique Nationale FN/FAL, FN/LAR, or FN/FNC; FAMAS MAS 223; Feather AT-9 and Mini-AT; Federal XC-900 and XC-450; Franchi SPAS-12 and LAW-12; Galil AR and ARM; Goncz High-Tech Carbine and High-Tech Long Pistol; Heckler & Koch HK-91, HK-93, HK-94 and SP-89; Holmes MP-83; MAC-10, MAC-11 and MAC-11 Carbine type; Intratec TEC-9 and Scorpion; Iver Johnson Enforcer model 3000; Ruger Mini-14/5F folding stock model only; Scarab Skorpion; SIG 57 AMT and 500 series; Spectre Auto Carbine and Auto Pistol; Springfield Armory BM59, SAR-48 and G-3; Sterling MK-6 and MK-7; Steyr AUG; Street Sweeper and Striker 12 revolving cylinder shotguns; USAS-12; UZI Carbine, Mini-Carbine and Pistol; Weaver Arms Nighthawk; Wilkinson "Linda" Pistol;



(2) A part or combination of parts designed or intended to convert a firearm into an assault weapon, as defined in subdivision (1) of this subsection, or any combination of parts from which an assault weapon, as defined in subdivision (1) of this subsection, may be rapidly assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same person;



(3) Any semiautomatic firearm not listed in subdivision (1) of this subsection that meets the following criteria:



(A) A semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least two of the following:



(i) A folding or telescoping stock;



(ii) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;



(iii) A bayonet mount;



(iv) A flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and



(v) A grenade launcher; or



(B) A semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least two of the following:



(i) An ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip;



(ii) A threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward handgrip or silencer;



(iii) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel and that permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the nontrigger hand without being burned;



(iv) A manufactured weight of fifty ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded; and



(v) A semiautomatic version of an automatic firearm; or



(C) A semiautomatic shotgun that has at least two of the following:



(i) A folding or telescoping stock;



(ii) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;



(iii) A fixed magazine capacity in excess of five rounds; and



(iv) An ability to accept a detachable magazine; or



(4) A part or combination of parts designed or intended to convert a firearm into an assault weapon, as defined in subdivision (3) of this subsection, or any combination of parts from which an assault weapon, as defined in subdivision (3) of this subsection, may be rapidly assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same person.


So as it stands they make no specific mention as to the mag. release. However, it does state that "any combination of parts" that make a gun an assualt weapon is illegal. Would the addition of a latch mag. release on a PTR make it close enough to a HK-91 to consider it illegal? Also it mentions that to be considered an assualt weapon the rifle must have a detachable mag and "2 of the followng" to be considered an assualt rifle, and while my rifle does have a pistol grip it does not have a flash hider, bayonet lug, or a folding stock. Taking just this into account the rifle would be legal with the upgrade, but not if you take into account the first part with it being too similar to the HK-91. I'm so confused!
 

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For those who asked, IGF added the paddle release in addition to other tasks, which are listed in my original thread here:

http://hkpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=60703

I sent IGF a paddle release that i sourced myself, which I paid about $40 for. I think the labor to install it was maybe $75-$80 or so...
 

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Correct me if I am wrong, but an HK-91 does not have a paddle. The way I read it, there is no mention of any sort of magazine release being prohibited. Since your gun only has the one evil feature besides the detachable magazine and is not mentioned specifically on the list, I would say that you can make a pullchain magazine release for the thing if the mood strikes you!
 

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Discussion Starter #9
To my knowledge the HK-91 has both the button and the latch or "paddle" mag. release on it. The PTR-91 only has the button (like an AR rifle). This would work fine if the mags. dropped freely like AR mags. when the button was depressed, but because of the method used to install/remove the G3 style mag. it is not designed to drop free. You must push slightly forward on the mag. while depressing the release to disengage it. This is far easier with the latch because it is located directly under your thumb. Whereas with the button, I have found no way of doing it without using two hands, one to remove the mag and one to depress the button. Normally on the HK-91, you would use your left hand for the entire process but the button on the PTR is located on the right side of the rifle, thus making it a impossibility to reach with even your left thumb forcing you to have to use in addition your right hand.

I was hoping that because the mag. latch was not named as a "controlled" part then it would be okay to add a latch release. But I am still unsure if it is in fact illegal because it could be construed as "a combination of parts designed to convert a firearm into an assualt weapon".
 

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I received an email from IGF. Labor to install the paddle mag release is $175.
 

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Thought of this thread yesterday when I was in Gander Mt. and noticed the stack of Mini-14s, all with paddle style releases. Looking on your prohibited list above, only the Mini-14 w/ folding stock is named directly. This also makes it seem to me that the release mechanism is not restricted, at least not by what you have copied above. Though I agree with you that the paddle release falls at least somewhat into the category of "evil" features, you really have to know something about weaponry to understand that. Pistol grips, folding stocks, big magazines, and flash hiders are much more scary looking than a little ol' mag release and therefore ignorant lawmakers tend to focus on them instead.

As far as needing a paddle for a fast mag change though, I refuse to believe it's necessary. There's quite a range of motion going on there. I drop the buttstock off my shoulder while pulling the muzzle up an in towards me to get at the cocking handle more easily. While I'm pulling the handle, I'm reaching forward with my trigger finger for the release button. Left hand comes off the cocking handle and down onto the mag as trigger finger pushes button. Gently tug magazine to free it, drop on floor (or into drop bag), go to next slot in vest, insert fresh magazine, give 'er the ole HK slap and resume bang-bang. I know, I know, they're cool though. Just might wanna consider the actually utility of it versus cost and any questions of legality you may have, that's all.

Oh yeah, not to argue about it or anything, but I thought the removal of the third pushpin on the 91 to make it legal for civi sales necessitated the removal of the paddle and the only reason they didn't put it back was because the button was already there.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
darthvictor, thanks for the info, no arguments here I didn't take it that way. :)

Actually the MINI-14 is what I am used to and mainly the reason why I find the button so annoying. The button seems too far forward for my index finger to reach it comfortably. Also, the PTR has a heavy barrel so it is cumbersome to have to fool around with getting the mag. out.

I hear what your saying about the "evil" features and that someone trying to prosecute me for an illegal rifle would have to know thier firearms very well in order to notice that I had modified the mag. release. However, I think I have reached the point where consulting a lawyer in my state would be the only way to know for sure if I could do the upgrade or not. I only want to do it if it is air-tight legal, with no if ands or buts about it. Although a latch mag. release would be great, I don't want to make my legal rifle illegal to get it.

The PTR is already somewhat a "boderline" illegal rifle here in CT and without knowing exactly what made it squeak by the ban I cannot modify it with confidence. Even though this ban was written back in '94 new rifles DO NOT seem to be exempt simply because they cannot be written in. I was told the new Microtech Steyr AUG clones were not going to be CT legal even though they have thumbhole "target" stocks without the evil pistol grip. I wanted one of those too, but no go I guess. :(

Thanks for all your help guys!
 

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Discussion Starter #14
After consulting my local shop, the latch mag. release does seem to be a viable upgrade for the PTR-91. I was told installing it will not make the rifle illegal with respect to the CT assualt weapons ban. Because the mag. release is not named as a controlled part it's addition or modification does not fall under the states legal jurisdiction. If I were to add a flash hider, bayonet lug, lighter weight barrel, or folding stock, this would make it "a combination of parts designed to convert a firearm into an assualt rifle" and hence be illegal. As such, modification of the mag. release is more along the lines of adding a laser, flashlight or scope onto the rifle, it is unrestricted.

I am thinking of having the shop send it to the gunsmith to get this done, but not after adding a plethora of other parts and shooting it alot more. I would like to upgrade to a Magpul stock, add a Hensoldt scope with claw mount, and a HK bipod first. Then this rifle will shoot flies at 100yrds!

As usual, thanks for all the help HKPRO!
 

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I've had Ralph Smith at RDTS do two paddle releases for me. One on my Springfield Armory SAR3 and one on my PTR. As far as I'm concerned, a paddle release comes before trigger work.
 

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Just 'cos you guys want to make your poor left hand do all the work! :p

Preferences aside, glad you can get the work done with confidence, HK4life.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Thanks for the help. The DIY post gave me an idea about what must be done. Fortunately, my local guy knows all about the upgrade and says he can have his gunsmith do it. So when the time comes I'm sending it to him as I do not trust myself enough to go drilling holes in my rifle. :D
 
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