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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello to everyone and Merry Christmas..
i have had chance to shoot original HK G3 and MP5, then turkish and pakistani made clones.
no need to say anything on differences on quality and accuracy.
in your opinion, why turkish and pakistani made clones are less accurate? quality of steel? tolerances? quality of work? heat treatment? barrels? thanks in advance.
 

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You are kidding right? Your first post here and you want to stir the HK verses Southern Asian clone pot? "no need to say anything on differences on quality and accuracy. in your opinion, why turkish and pakistani made clones are less accurate?" Really? Come on dude.

Scott
 

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Get real dude. My MKE K model is laser accurate.
 

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LOL Even I don't try to push buttons like that.
 

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I have not had too bad of an experience with the Turkish MP5s i've handled but, Pakistan MP5s can be pretty bad, many are fine but due to what i suspect is poor QC, there are many lemons I have seen online and elsewhere. The problems i've seen are the little claw mount bumps on the receiver being slightly off, the finish being meh, something to do with the cocking tube(don't remember what exactly) or in one case practically the entire weapon being out of spec (i don't know if that one was Pakistani to be honest but, i remember it being some kinda import) at one point i remember seeing people piss and moan about mke on some forum, but i didn't pay much attention. Brethren Arms did an article explaining how companies with "hk tooling" aren't always top of the line. HOWEVER, in my opinion you will not find a better bargain for a decent clone than Zenith/MKE
 

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I've built many clones over the past 10 years and the quality of Oberndorf is king. PTR has good stuff, but it's not the same. FMP was also good. Greek contract stuff is good.

MKE and POF are ok, lots of problems. I just completed a MSG/PSG style gun and used a POF made cocking tube. It's ok but just not up to the German stuff.

The only company I have seen that puts out Oberndorf level stuff is RCM in terms of parts. Their barrels might be the only part I would say are on par or even surpass German quality.
 

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PLEASE STOP! This exactly what the OP wants. Some love their Southern Asian clones and some are HK original only. Whatever works for you is great. This forum is for people that tend to be interested in non HK manufacturers of original HK designs. That is why this is the "Clone Forum".



Never have I seen such an egregious first post. It certainly seems to me the whole purpose of the OP was to get members arguing. I see nothing good coming from this post.



OP if conflict is what you are looking to do, most members are not going to want you around. This site is the best place I know of for information of HK original designed firearms. This forum specifically is for "clones" or original HK designs built by manufacturers other than HK. If you are interested in specific questions as to differences, there is a wealth of knowledge here. But coming onto the Clone Forum to say, "Why do you think clones suck?", is just inflammatory and doesn't further the knowledge base here. PLEASE STOP!

Scott
 

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Scott....is it possible that the OP, being new to this forum, is simply asking a question, looking for information? Why are you all twisted up over a question? You are putting words in the guy's mouth. He did not say, "Why do clones suck?" It seems the only one posting something inflammatory is you. Perhaps you are telepathic, but if not, I think your responses to the OP are uncalled for. FWIW.
 

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Scott....is it possible that the OP, being new to this forum, is simply asking a question, looking for information? Why are you all twisted up over a question? You are putting words in the guy's mouth. He did not say, "Why do clones suck?" It seems the only one posting something inflammatory is you. Perhaps you are telepathic, but if not, I think your responses to the OP are uncalled for. FWIW.
Maybe I am jaded. A HK G3 and MP5 are machineguns. It seems to me, if the OP was actually interested in differences in such firearms he would have posted his question on the NFA forum. The membership on the Clone Forum would tend to be very pro clone oriented. For me it was two months from the time I joined to the time I first posted and that was to ask for clarification of a point I didn't understand. I get that maybe that is not for everyone. This is not a conversation. There is no intonation, simply text.

A big part of why I'm a member here is overall the membership here is respectful. The OP joined this month. I've got no way to know how much the OP used the search feature. He didn't mention it in his post. Personally the first time I go into a sports bar mid way through the season, that has lots of memorabilia of the local team and announce to the crowd, I'm new here and I want to know why do you think the local team isn't leading the league? I wouldn't think I would get much for thought out responses. Maybe the OP is just didn't think it through. If that is the case, I'm certainly willing to apologize. If it was intended to stir the pot, I don't appreciate it. YMMV.

Scott
 

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Maybe the OP is just didn't think it through. If that is the case, I'm certainly willing to apologize. If it was intended to stir the pot, I don't appreciate it. YMMV. Scott

Well, let me please share a bit more of my concern. And forgive me for being so blunt, but I'd say this in response to your latest comment. Maybe you did not "think through" the fact that you crapped all over a brand new member simply posting a question, but chose to assume the very worst and then proceeded to browbeat the guy. And you basically just tripled down on the guy. I don't appreciate that, and I've seen this behavior from other longer-time members and I find it simply absurd. Maybe that is just par for the course. But, as you say, YMMV.
 

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IMO, it is clear that the OP is talking down MKE and POF products. I agree with Scott. The post seems intended to stir controversy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
Gentlemen....i am sorry if i hurted some sensibility ....
yeas i am new in the forum and if i made any mistake posting in wrong topic i respectfully apologize. no harm or disresepct meant.

point is... no doubt, absolutely no doubt that is no comparison between original german made MP5/G3/hk33 and clones.
i am an ex operator and used in service both turkish made Mp5 and original german one. i bought tons of beer to quartermaster to give me an oberndorf made one.

the reason for my question was simple, i work for an european licensed dealer. we have few g3 ...few turkish few pakistani. i was thinking to try to change barrels with european made ones, to change springs and pins, and to tenifer all parts. maybe some polymer etc...more than a real business a chance to convince my boss to give me few of his hard earned dollars to play around in our new machine shop. what should i correct? is enought o put a high quality barrel? thats all.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
i can guarante with my life Sir, that having used in combat both MKE and Oberndorf, there is no, again no comparision between them. i dont know what tey made for civilian market, but turkish military ones are crap. trained with turkish SF,,,,,have you ever asked yourself why turkish highly skilled sf use dragunovs???? and PKM machine guns when they make the MG3.... ah....have been inside the factory MKE in kirikale in 2010.... very nice fritz werner machines of 1950-1960.... :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
You are kidding right? Your first post here and you want to stir the HK verses Southern Asian clone pot? "no need to say anything on differences on quality and accuracy. in your opinion, why turkish and pakistani made clones are less accurate?" Really? Come on dude.

Scott
Sir, because i have used in combat both turkish and german ones. meant G3-Mp5-Hk 33. both. in combat. real one. simple like that.

for sure the pakistani one i would never carry in combat. better with a stick.

now, i have never used the ones they might have made for civilian market under specifications of an american importer. what turks and pakis delivered to their troops, is an insult to human decency.
respectfully
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Get real dude. My MKE K model is laser accurate.
i have no doubt in your word Sir!

as i am sure the turkish MP 5 i was issued when i was young handsome and government lied me with lot of nice words about heroism and adventure was a real but real piece of crap. as i am sure that turkish army sf use dragunovs.... why if you have G3? or use russian and bulgarian made pkm when MKE manufactures MG3...why????
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I have not had too bad of an experience with the Turkish MP5s i've handled but, Pakistan MP5s can be pretty bad, many are fine but due to what i suspect is poor QC, there are many lemons I have seen online and elsewhere. The problems i've seen are the little claw mount bumps on the receiver being slightly off, the finish being meh, something to do with the cocking tube(don't remember what exactly) or in one case practically the entire weapon being out of spec (i don't know if that one was Pakistani to be honest but, i remember it being some kinda import) at one point i remember seeing people piss and moan about mke on some forum, but i didn't pay much attention. Brethren Arms did an article explaining how companies with "hk tooling" aren't always top of the line. HOWEVER, in my opinion you will not find a better bargain for a decent clone than Zenith/MKE
Sir,
i have no idea on turkish made products for american civilian market. what i have used in service were turkish products made for their troops. we had first issued mp5K!. Lord Almighty have protected us ....we used them as we wanted to look as SAS in operation nimrod, then first operation we had our butt seriously kicked, we turned back, throwed them in the warehouse, and back to the glorious AK47.....
regarding pakistani ones which i have seen (military issued) real horror.... pffff
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I've built many clones over the past 10 years and the quality of Oberndorf is king. PTR has good stuff, but it's not the same. FMP was also good. Greek contract stuff is good.

MKE and POF are ok, lots of problems. I just completed a MSG/PSG style gun and used a POF made cocking tube. It's ok but just not up to the German stuff.

The only company I have seen that puts out Oberndorf level stuff is RCM in terms of parts. Their barrels might be the only part I would say are on par or even surpass German quality.
thank you sir.
regarding turks and pakistani...it happens that for 5 years i was a guest in oberndorf am neckar,,,,almost twice a month.
now....hk personnel are esquisite persons, bot normally quite discrete...and last time i was there in 2007.....
what i remmember is that license to various countries was given during cold war, ...turkey, pakistan, shah's iran, were all neighbours of soviet union and filo americans....
but it came a moment that no more technological support was given.... meaning no steel, no tooling and gauges, no technological assistance etc....
now, i am not an engineer, and not a mechanic. for sure not a metalurgist....
point is...we have a non original g3. what we should change and improve to make it good?????
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
PLEASE STOP! This exactly what the OP wants. Some love their Southern Asian clones and some are HK original only. Whatever works for you is great. This forum is for people that tend to be interested in non HK manufacturers of original HK designs. That is why this is the "Clone Forum".



Never have I seen such an egregious first post. It certainly seems to me the whole purpose of the OP was to get members arguing. I see nothing good coming from this post.



OP if conflict is what you are looking to do, most members are not going to want you around. This site is the best place I know of for information of HK original designed firearms. This forum specifically is for "clones" or original HK designs built by manufacturers other than HK. If you are interested in specific questions as to differences, there is a wealth of knowledge here. But coming onto the Clone Forum to say, "Why do you think clones suck?", is just inflammatory and doesn't further the knowledge base here. PLEASE STOP!

Scott
Sir.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
i made a question and i am not very much a forum's type...i apologize again if somehow i was rude to any one. no intention.
as a person which does not belong to much at forums life, i can not understand all this your revolt and damnations??????? what about taking it a little bit easier, and try to supose that my question is waht really is. a simple technical question to people which know more than i do....
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Scott....is it possible that the OP, being new to this forum, is simply asking a question, looking for information? Why are you all twisted up over a question? You are putting words in the guy's mouth. He did not say, "Why do clones suck?" It seems the only one posting something inflammatory is you. Perhaps you are telepathic, but if not, I think your responses to the OP are uncalled for. FWIW.
thank you Sir!
 
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