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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
So after recently hearing about Ionbond DiamondBlack, I've been doing a little research.
I emailed Scott at Springer Precision, and he mentioned that for the P7, the barrel would have to be pressed out before they could coat it (it being the frame). This seemed a little odd to me because in my experience, once you press fit something, that fit is no longer up to spec if removed and then reinserted since the material deforms plastically.
This makes me a little wary, but I'm wondering what you're all experiences are with this. I've read a lot about people talking about getting Ionbond for their P7, but not really any of people actually doing it.

And I still haven't been able to find a photo of a P7 with DiamondBlack yet, so post some up here if you can.

Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Sorry. To clarify, the frame/slide is being coated. The barrel must be pressed out before the frame can be coated, and then pressed back in upon reassembly.
 

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Good question. Hopefully someone has done it and can comment...
 

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I believe when Robar does NP3 the simply "mask" the barrel so that the barrel does not get treated.......could be wrong, but it seems there should be a better way to prevent the barrel from getting coated without removing it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I believe when Robar does NP3 the simply "mask" the barrel so that the barrel does not get treated
That was my understanding as well. I'm assuming the different application process required for DiamondBlack prevents this from being a viable option...

And I still can't find a single pic of a P7 with Ionbond DiamondBlack. dub tee eff...
 

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I believe if you have the gun done in Melonite they have to remove the barrel. I don't recall that being the case with ION bond, particularly if you coat the barrel, but I could be mistaken. At one point I was exploring the concept of having my P7 refinished in either ION bond or Melonite. As I recall the cost was fairly high because I had to send the gun to someone like Grey Guns to disassemble the pistol so that the parts could be shipped for refinishing. After refinishing the parts would be shipped back to Grey Guns, and they would reassemble the gun. The extra shipping expense, plus the fact you are dealing with two shops, wasn't cheap, although Grey Guns isn't that far from Springer's shop. BTW, Grey Guns was pushing the Melonite finish over the ION bond finish. It seemed to me that Springer had little to no experience with the P7, so I wasn't comfortable with him doing anything but coating whatever parts Grey Guns sent to him. Ultimately I couldn't make up my mind, so I've done nothing.
 

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I've read that having the barrel removed and reinstalled on a P7 is a procedure that only a very few people in the US are qualified to do. Is this true?
 

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I've read that having the barrel removed and reinstalled on a P7 is a procedure that only a very few people in the US are qualified to do. Is this true?
That is my understanding, which was confirmed by Grey Guns (who apparently is qualified). Grey Guns apparently has some special set up/equipment that they use to remove and reset the barrel. They explained it to me (including what can go wrong if a hack tries it), but I don't recall the particulars.

BTW, Springer's shop didn't even know how to remove the extractor spring so they weren't comfortable refiniishing the slide in ION bond. They wanted to do the frame in ION bond and do the slide in Ceracoat. That concerned me enough that I didn't want them handling my P7 without adult supervision.
 

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I would avoid the Melonite just for the fact of super high temps its applied at (1050 f range). If I was doing a P7 in IonBond,
which I probably would over Melonite ... have the barrel pressed out, have the IonBond applied, then have the barrel
pressed back in to place by some one who has the right press/knowledge.

The high temps of Melonite application, can actually anneal the hardness from the steel and cause issues with some steel
guns like the Hi-Power. Maybe the P7 is harder, but I would not get into that 'crap shoot'. Its the reason I went with
IonBond instead of Melonite, after my smith talked at length with George at Evolution Gun Works(EGW) who applies it
under his own name of eTreat, advised against doing my custom Hi-Power in Melonite, George and the smith both
recommended IonBon instead.

Some member did recently have Melonite applied to his P7

YMMV
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
BTW, Springer's shop didn't even know how to remove the extractor spring so they weren't comfortable refiniishing the slide in ION bond. They wanted to do the frame in ION bond and do the slide in Ceracoat. That concerned me enough that I didn't want them handling my P7 without adult supervision.
Leftee, when was it that this happened? Maybe they have had more experience since then? The email I got from the owner of Springer suggested that the barrel press and disassembly was done in house. I just emailed him back for a confirmation.

I'm a bit more concerned right now about the long term effects of removing and reassembling a press fit part...
 

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Leftee, when was it that this happened? Maybe they have had more experience since then? The email I got from the owner of Springer suggested that the barrel press and disassembly was done in house. I just emailed him back for a confirmation.

I'm a bit more concerned right now about the long term effects of removing and reassembling a press fit part...

Maybe they now send the gun to GrayGuns to remove the barrel? I think they are pretty close to each other. In any event here's the email I received in 2009 when I was investigating the possibilities:

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 3:35 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:

I spoke to Scott today and he said the problem that we have with the P7 is the block welded into the slide and we can not coat the slide in DiamondBLACK because you can not remove the extractor spring.

So, we can coat the lower and internal parts in DiamondBLACK, but must CeraKote the slide on the P7.

Christine
Orders/Accounting

Springer Precision LLC
20791 Egypt Dr
Bend, OR 97701

Phone: 541-480-5546
Fax: 541-383-4652
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Well I got an email back from Scott and he said they could press it out there. He also made no mention of the extractor spring issue when i asked if there were any parts that could not be coated with DiamondBlack. As long as they stand by their work, I see no reason not to trust them with the barrel pressing unless anyone here has any experiences to the contrary. Right now, I'm still just concerned about the long term effects of removing/reinstalling the barrel. Is it possible/worthwhile/cost effective to source a new barrel for installation?
 

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Find G3Kurz on this forum and ask him. He's a former engineer from HK with an extensive knowledge on the P7 and would be able to help a lot, I bet.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Thanks TGS, I sent him a PM.
 

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WRT to Robar and NP3 they do in fact mask the P7 barrel and charge $20 over the regular price to do it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
The response from G3Kurz:

They should not need to remove the bbl for the surface finishing. All they need to do is plug the chamber, muzzle and gas cylinder to prevent the coating from entering those areas. Puilling the barrel is relatively easy. Getting it back in the correct place (lining up the gas port) is not and requires a special press and holding jig. i would strongly advise against it.
Seems to be what we all thought. At this point it seems that Ionbond from Springer isn't for me, as much as I would like a DiamondBlack coating. Let me email Scott and see if he would consider plugging the barrel instead of removing it.

Edit:
Well that was a fast reply. Here is what I got from Scott:
It is not possible to coat the pistol without removing the barrel. The coating is applied in a vacuum and the contaminates will be sucked out and ruin the batch of coating. Bruce Gray (Gray Guns) is the one who taught me how to remove the barrels, and I don't know of anyone who knows more about the P7 than he does.

If you don't want to remove the barrel, you would need to consider another coating such as CerKote.
What do you guys think?
 

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The response from G3Kurz:



Seems to be what we all thought. At this point it seems that Ionbond from Springer isn't for me, as much as I would like a DiamondBlack coating. Let me email Scott and see if he would consider plugging the barrel instead of removing it.

Edit:
Well that was a fast reply. Here is what I got from Scott:


What do you guys think?
Maybe ask if he has a special press and jig to reinsert the barrel? GrayGuns has told me they have one, so it's possible they helped to set up Springer. You might also talk withi GrayGuns and see if they have any experience with Springer.
 

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Maybe ask if he has a special press and jig to reinsert the barrel? GrayGuns has told me they have one, so it's possible they helped to set up Springer. You might also talk withi GrayGuns and see if they have any experience with Springer.
They may have one or copied the HK version but it is not a simple task. Yes, getting it out is pretty easy. But reinstalling it is another matter altogether. One must align both the gas port and the barrel pin cut as the barrel is pressed back into the frame. You cannot simply turn the barrel once in the frame to align these parts and I have seen at least one barrel shroud cracked when this is done improperly.

A simple set of tappered rubber "corks" held in place by a threaded rod and a cork in the gas cylinder has worked fine many times by others like Birdsong and HK who coat pistols but I am not too familiar with this finish.

Adding too much to the surface can inhibit function a well so I would not have them coat the pistion.

G3Kurz
 
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