HKPRO Forums banner

1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,970 Posts
Yes, plated bullets are fine

Yes, you can use copper-plated bullets (Rainier, Berry's, etc.) with your HK polygonal barrel, but be sure to load them according to lead-bullet loading data and NOT jacketed-bullet loading data, or they may end up being too fast. If they are too fast they will wipe off the copper-plating into your bore along with lead (big clean-up). If your bore were allowed to get leaded bad enough, it could be dangerous to try to shoot out of it.

The plated bullets are not much harder than plain cast lead bullets, whereas the jacketed bullets are ALOT harder, and need a hotter powder charge in order to get through the barrel. The relatively softer copper-plated bullets go through the barrel with much less resistance, and therefore need less powder to get up to speed. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
329 Posts
So after reading their website I don't really see the advantage to using these bullets, anyone care to fill me in?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,343 Posts
As long the the ammo is loaded to SAMI specs using this bullet, why wouldnt it be a fine round? ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
151 Posts
Love 'em

I load the Rainier 147 gr. 9mm truncated round nose for my HK p2000sk using Bullseye powder.

Check the Rainier web site, but they do not recommend pushing them past 1,200 fps. This is not a big deal with the 9mm as it is about just over 1,000 fps with the heavy bullets

I just received 2,000 230 grain .45 Rainier bullets from Midway USA and plan to use those in my USP .45f LEM. I have a few hundred Winchester jacketed ball rounds left. I plan to use the same load because it is under 900 fps.

A major advantage is the bullets are completely plated in copper so there is no exposed lead. Lead can cause health problems. Exposed lead on the base of the FMJ bullets can get into the air, especially in an indoor range.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,970 Posts
. . . Exposed lead on the base of the FMJ bullets can get into the air, especially in an indoor range.
Absolutely true. The encapsulating copper-plating covers the entire bullet, whereas traditional FMJs leave the base of the bullet with exposed lead. When the charge ignites, some of that exposed lead base on a traditional FMJ gets vaporized and ends up in the air. Using copper encapsulated bullets reduces the lead in the air IF the plating is not compromised during loading or firing. You would need to recover a spent bullet and inspect it to see if that is the case. You may also find that the case mouths are shaving the copper plating away when seating the bullets in the cases (which would likely also harm the accuracy potential of the round). Traditional FMJs on the other hand have a thick, hard jacket, and are alot less prone to those kinds of issues.

Using encapsulated bullets correctly will reduce airborne lead, however, it will not eliminate it. I believe that much of the airborne lead actually originates in the primers themselves. There is such a thing as lead-free primers, but I don't think they are available as a cartridge component to regular reloaders like you and I. Hopefully, they will be one day soon. Actually, I would think that lead-free primers will replace the leaded ones altogether within the next several years (I hope so). :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,970 Posts
So after reading their website I don't really see the advantage to using these bullets, anyone care to fill me in?
Advantages:
Encapsulated bullet reduces airborne lead
Reduced barrel-wear as compared with regular FMJs
Cheaper to produce than regular FMJs

Disadvantages:
More fragile than regular FMJs
Requires a bit more consideration in reloading process
Speed limited
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
114 Posts
I use them in my 45 and 9 and both run fine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
101 Posts
I'm following this thread to learn more about plated bullets in polygon rifling. Some folks seem to think it is fine to use them while others caution against it. I called Jarvis to see if they make a standard rifled barrel for my P2K-SK and he said they don't. I also asked if he would shoot Rainiers in a polygon barrel, his opinion was that he would not.

Odds are if you keep the speeds down to that of lead bullets it should be ok. In my ignorance of the issue I was shooting some .40 cal 135 grain with 6.4 grains of TiteGroup, a load I have worked up for my Berretta without issue. One round did sound different, different enough that I stopped, cleared the pistol and checked the bore to be sure nothing was left in the barrel. From my research it sounds like if you over drive the plated bullets it is possible to shed the platting in the bore, with serious consequences on the next shot. For now I'm going to shoot regular FMJ in my HKs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
For what it's worth I relaod tons of ammo. 75% of that is lead. With the cost of components going up and the fact that I now own a MK2 that I want to shoot the $hi! out of I am faced with having to look for something oher than lead. The plated bullets are a substantial savings over jacketed. I purchased 500 230gr Rainer bullets for under $50. Winchester 230gr FMJ were $17 per 100 at local dealer, that would be $85 b4 tax. With that said, the seed I would be pushing the Rainers at out of my MK23 would be <950FPS which should not peel the plating off. To be quite honest, I will be working on as slow a bullet as possble. If I do not find something with the Rainers that I am hapy with then I will just move on and suck it up with FMJ's. I am looking to hit the range sometime b4 X-mas.

With teh cost of ammo on teh rise I am surprised that HK Pro doesnt have a reloading section. But then again, what do I know... I'm the NEWB in these parts! :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,970 Posts
For what it's worth I relaod tons of ammo. 75% of that is lead. With the cost of components going up and the fact that I now own a MK2 that I want to shoot the $hi! out of I am faced with having to look for something oher than lead. The plated bullets are a substantial savings over jacketed. I purchased 500 230gr Rainer bullets for under $50. Winchester 230gr FMJ were $17 per 100 at local dealer, that would be $85 b4 tax. With that said, the seed I would be pushing the Rainers at out of my MK23 would be <950FPS which should not peel the plating off. To be quite honest, I will be working on as slow a bullet as possble. If I do not find something with the Rainers that I am hapy with then I will just move on and suck it up with FMJ's. I am looking to hit the range sometime b4 X-mas.

With teh cost of ammo on teh rise I am surprised that HK Pro doesnt have a reloading section. But then again, what do I know... I'm the NEWB in these parts! :)
You can also just run lead bullets in your Mark 23 if you want to. Many guys on here do. Especially if you are looking to run at the slowest speeds possible, lead cast bullets should be absolutely no problem. Of course, you still would need to keep an eye out for barrel-leading just to be extra safe, but I really doubt you would have any problems. If you were going to work up a hot, self-defense load, you'd want to use a good, jacketed, self-defense bullet like a Gold Dot for instance, but plain lead is just fine for plinking. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
So why are poly barrels so much trouble for lead when compared to traditionaly landed and grooved barrels?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,970 Posts
So why are poly barrels so much trouble for lead when compared to traditionaly landed and grooved barrels?
Polygonal barrels are not so much trouble for lead when compared with traditional land and groove barrels. That whole rumor was caused by Glock recommending against lead in their poly barrels. But, that had something to do with the transition between the chamber and the rifling being kinda sharp and making it more prone to leading in that area of Glock barrels. Hk does not recommend against lead in their poly barrels (neither does Kahr).

The issue with unjacketed lead (in any barrel design) is speed. If you run them too hot, you will have barrel leading. Plated bullets are essentially the same, but worse - if you run them too fast you will not only get leading but also copper mixed in (making it even harder to clean up).

If you want to run hot (fast), go with standard jacketing. . . If you are looking to create powder-puff, soft, plinking loads, you can use your choice of unjacketed, plated or jacketed according to your taste and purpose. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
I see clearly now!

The good thing with .45's is that not many break the 1K FPS mark, so I should be just fine at 950 and under. Thanks for all the help.

Looks like 4.5gr of red dot under 230gr Rainers will be just the ticket
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,625 Posts
Exposed lead on the base of the FMJ bullets can get into the air, especially in an indoor range.
I'm not sure which brands are which, but I have about 10 factory FMJ bullets I recovered from a stack of phone books and about half have exposed lead in the base and half do not.

The gunshow reload FMJs I shoot from one company are all fully jacketed in copper, those from another company are not.

I've looked around, and not everyone specifies whether they are fully encapsulated or not.
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Top