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Discussion Starter #1
For those who have a problem with recoil in the G3 clones, you might want to consider a muzzle brake instead of a heavy recoil buffer. For one thing, they are MUCH more available than a heavy recoil buffer. For another, they are very easy to install. No modifications to the rifle are necessary. And finally, they really are good at taming the recoil. I had a factory H&K 91, and the recoil from it can only be described as "brutal". Only guy I knew that could fire it and not wince was my partner. And he was a big, Teutonic German. :biggrin:

When I got my Century G3 clones, back when they first started building them, they had muzzle brakes instead of flash suppressors installed. This was because of the old flash suppressor ban that has since gone away. I was dubious about how well they would work, but they turned out to be amazingly effective. I could fire them all day and not one complaint about recoil, and no big, black/purple shoulder bruises. Unfortunately, Century no longer sells these brakes. The one on the C308 seems to work well, but it is kinda fugly. But E-Bay is loaded with muzzle brakes for the G3 clones. I would suggest something like this:

New 308/.308 5/8x24 TPI Compact Size Steel Muzzle Brake + FREE Crush Washer | eBay

It is the closest I have been able to find to the old Century brakes. If my PTR91 turns out to be a "shoulder smasher" (not all of them are), this will be the way I go.

Dep
 

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I reload and I also use the msg90 buffer, reloads have much less recoil then NATO m80 ball. If bolt gap, locking piece and rollers are correct, recoil should not be excessive. They make different DEGREE angle locking pieces that will actually slow down the carrier impulse. My JLD has 2,000rnds thru it and recoil is soft as hell with the standard buffer. But yes, muzzle brakes work, but they are very loud and receive ugly looks from range neighbors. Lol! Just my opinion. I own many and have 20 years exp, you should not need a muzzle brake. Again, just m.o. Carry on
 

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I have quite a bit of rounds through my PTR GI and even in stock form I would NEVER describe the recoil as "brutal" and I could hardly be called "Teutonic" (though I am half German). Heck my 4'10" 100lb wife enjoys shooting it as well and that is from a bag which is the least recoil absorbing way to shoot. Personally I think the rifle is a pleasure to shoot, though I can see how the current crop of mouse gun shooters that were raised to think of the AR15 in 5.56 as a high powered rifle might find it a bit much.

Of course I also have no issues putting 60 rounds of 30.06 through my lightweight bolt gun during a range trip either.

I did put a muzzle brake on my GI and while it keeps me on target after a shot better due to less muzzle rise, I can't say I have noticed much in the way of softening the recoil.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
G3s are weird. Some show absolutely NO signs of heavy recoil. Others are like getting hit with a baseball bat. I looked all over the place for H&K internal buffers and they are simply not to be found. Plus I plan on a collapsible stock for mine, so those buffers usually won't fit. I will take my PTR91 GI to the range before spending any money on a buffer. But from previous experience, I suspect I will need one. I am by no means a "mouse caliber" aficionado. I trained on the M14 in basic and AIT and carried one with a selector switch in Nam. Saw way too many ineffective hits with the .22 guns to ever trust them. So I am not "used" to that caliber. However, I know heavy recoil when I feel it. And I sure felt in in my H&K 91. I also know that a collapsible stock is not going to improve matters at all. So it is highly likely I will get a muzzle brake. There is nothing wrong with using a muzzle brake. No "shame" in in. Heck, Century installs them from the factory on their C308 CETME rifle and I sure haven't seen a lot of complaints about it.
My post is simply informative for those who DO feel excessive recoil in the G3 clones. As to them being loud...loudest ones I ever owned were on an older AR10 carbine. Good grief...the impulses were literally painful if you were standing anywhere near them.
 

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I have also had muzzle brakes on Cetme rifles. They seemed to help more with muzzle climb than felt recoil and are very loud. I have used HK heavy 2 stage buffers and MSG90 buffers in several stocks on HK91 clones and find that they make this style of rifle very comfortable to shoot especially when used with an HK21 style buttpad.

If you plan to use a collapsible stock or a wood stock you might want to check out the improved buffer kits offered my Bill Springfield. The kits are very easy to install and only cost $39. You simply remove the piston and spring from your buffer and replace it with the improved spring and piston. I will be getting one of these soon for my collapsible stock.

Improved buffer for fixed stock:

Bill Springfield - www.TriggerWork.net

Improved buffer for collapsible stocks:

Bill Springfield - www.TriggerWork.net
 

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G3s are weird. Some show absolutely NO signs of heavy recoil. Others are like getting hit with a baseball bat. I looked all over the place for H&K internal buffers and they are simply not to be found. Plus I plan on a collapsible stock for mine, so those buffers usually won't fit. I will take my PTR91 GI to the range before spending any money on a buffer. But from previous experience, I suspect I will need one. I am by no means a "mouse caliber" aficionado. I trained on the M14 in basic and AIT and carried one with a selector switch in Nam. Saw way too many ineffective hits with the .22 guns to ever trust them. So I am not "used" to that caliber. However, I know heavy recoil when I feel it. And I sure felt in in my H&K 91. I also know that a collapsible stock is not going to improve matters at all. So it is highly likely I will get a muzzle brake. There is nothing wrong with using a muzzle brake. No "shame" in in. Heck, Century installs them from the factory on their C308 CETME rifle and I sure haven't seen a lot of complaints about it.
My post is simply informative for those who DO feel excessive recoil in the G3 clones. As to them being loud...loudest ones I ever owned were on an older AR10 carbine. Good grief...the impulses were literally painful if you were standing anywhere near them.
My reply was not aimed at you specifically nor did I say there was any shame in using a comp. I even clearly stated I installed a comp on my rifle (for muzzle climb) and just commented that I didn't notice much, if any, recoil reduction from it.

As to your HK91 perhaps the buffer was worn out, broken or stuck as that would produce harsh recoil.
 

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The range officers used to give me grief years ago when I had a Century G3 with the comp. Way too loud. So that is not an option for me. GARY
 

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My reply was not aimed at you specifically nor did I say there was any shame in using a comp. I even clearly stated I installed a comp on my rifle (for muzzle climb) and just commented that I didn't notice much, if any, recoil reduction from it.

As to your HK91 perhaps the buffer was worn out, broken or stuck as that would produce harsh recoil.
He should think of replacing the recoil spring also. FWIW I own a bunch of these rifles and recoil has never been a problem for me, now a K98 Mauser (8mm) that's recoil.:tongue:
 

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Something I have not seen mentioned in this thread is low light performance. Most clone barrels are 18" or even 16". At those lengths there is still a far amount of powder that hasn't burned when the bullet clears the muzzle. A flash hider is designed to limit the flash from that unburned powder. A brake is not. Now if your rifle is a "range toy" for use on nice sunny days, a brake would be fine. If there is the possibility that the rifle might occasionally used in a low light situation, like near the end of the day during hunting season. The flash of a brake would certainly limit follow up shot possibilities, or even seeing the game in low light after the shot is taken. The game is mortally wounded, but still runs 100 yards. If you are blinded by the flash, which direction did the game run that 100 yards? Just something to think about when considering muzzle brake verses buffer in the stock.

Scott
 

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Something I have not seen mentioned in this thread is low light performance. Most clone barrels are 18" or even 16". At those lengths there is still a far amount of powder that hasn't burned when the bullet clears the muzzle. A flash hider is designed to limit the flash from that unburned powder. A brake is not. Now if your rifle is a "range toy" for use on nice sunny days, a brake would be fine. If there is the possibility that the rifle might occasionally used in a low light situation, like near the end of the day during hunting season. The flash of a brake would certainly limit follow up shot possibilities, or even seeing the game in low light after the shot is taken. The game is mortally wounded, but still runs 100 yards. If you are blinded by the flash, which direction did the game run that 100 yards? Just something to think about when considering muzzle brake verses buffer in the stock.

Scott
You could always get the PWS FSC that is a muzzle brake on paper and does a good job of reducing recoil, but is also designed to reduce flash. As for the buffer vs brake discussion in my opinion you need both a muzzle brake and a buffer to really make the shooting experience pleasant. With just a brake the carrier slamming into the standard buffer still leaves a mark in my shoulder. A 21 shoulder pad can also be used in place of the buffer, but 21 shoulder pad with buffer and no brake was not nearly as comfortable.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Everyone's experiences seem to vary with recoil and muzzle brakes. As I sated in my first post, the Century brakes completely eliminated any recoil problems. And that was on both their green furniture/stainless receiver version, and the wood furniture CETME version. So saying muzzle brakes have minimal effect simply isn't true. I have looked into the other options like the change-out of the recoil buffer for factory and aftermarket heavy buffers. In every case it involves modifying the factory stock...regular or collapsible. I'm not interested in doing that. Not when I can just un-thread the flash hider and screw on a new brake and get a perfectly acceptable solution. As to noise and flash...not a concern. I live in New Mexico and only shoot at outdoor ranges during the day. So neither one is an issue. Only hunting I do is at McDonalds or Sonic. :biggrin:
BTW..the H&K 91 I had was brand new so couldn't be worn out. Stuck or broken? Also not likely.
 

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Everyone's experiences seem to vary with recoil and muzzle brakes. As I sated in my first post, the Century brakes completely eliminated any recoil problems. And that was on both their green furniture/stainless receiver version, and the wood furniture CETME version. So saying muzzle brakes have minimal effect simply isn't true. I have looked into the other options like the change-out of the recoil buffer for factory and aftermarket heavy buffers. In every case it involves modifying the factory stock...regular or collapsible. I'm not interested in doing that. Not when I can just un-thread the flash hider and screw on a new brake and get a perfectly acceptable solution. As to noise and flash...not a concern. I live in New Mexico and only shoot at outdoor ranges during the day. So neither one is an issue. Only hunting I do is at McDonalds or Sonic. :biggrin:
BTW..the H&K 91 I had was brand new so couldn't be worn out. Stuck or broken? Also not likely.
It seems you didn't do enough research as not every upgraded buffer requires modifying the stock.

Bill Springfield makes a replacement buffer assembly that drops into the stock housing and RTG offers this HK Heay Buffer, U.S. PCS, HK91, G3, PTR91, HK33, Parabellum Combat Systems, HKK-1989, RTG Parts


I am also still having a hard time wraping my head around how the recoil of the .308 cartridge in a 9+ pound, semi-auto rifle can be called "brutal" by a grown man.
 

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He should think of replacing the recoil spring also. FWIW I own a bunch of these rifles and recoil has never been a problem for me, now a K98 Mauser (8mm) that's recoil.:tongue:
I was just about to say the exact same thing. A K98 has some recoil, a Semi auto .308 not so much. You might need to replace the recoil spring.
 

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Everyone's experiences seem to vary with recoil and muzzle brakes. As I sated in my first post, the Century brakes completely eliminated any recoil problems. And that was on both their green furniture/stainless receiver version, and the wood furniture CETME version. So saying muzzle brakes have minimal effect simply isn't true. I have looked into the other options like the change-out of the recoil buffer for factory and aftermarket heavy buffers. In every case it involves modifying the factory stock...regular or collapsible. I'm not interested in doing that. Not when I can just un-thread the flash hider and screw on a new brake and get a perfectly acceptable solution. As to noise and flash...not a concern. I live in New Mexico and only shoot at outdoor ranges during the day. So neither one is an issue. Only hunting I do is at McDonalds or Sonic. :biggrin:
BTW..the H&K 91 I had was brand new so couldn't be worn out. Stuck or broken? Also not likely.
Put this on your Rifle, it works.

https://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=837&idcategory=121



I use one on a PTR91K with the A3 Para stock, It's the most effective Brake on the market.
 

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^^^^ That brake is 15x1 and new PTRs (are C308s the same?) are now 15x24 threads.
 

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The Op has a HK91 correct? If so that MB will fit it. My PTR91K is an older model with the original 15X1 threads.
He said he "had" an HK91 (the one with the brutal recoil) and now has a PTR91 and is looking at a C308 (in another thread).
 
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