recoil spring - HK45 vs. USP 45

11619 Views 19 Replies 17 Participants Last post by Condition0, May 20, 2015

texasgun

Discussion Starter · Mar 18, 2012 (Edited by Moderator)

Why did HK change the proven dual-recoil spring set up from the USP .45 and put a more conventional recoil spring (w polymer buffer) into the HK45?

The recoil of the HK45 is not bad, but a USP .45 has definitely a much smoother perceived recoil.

I'm just curious.... there should be plenty of "space" in a full size pistol for a more advanced dual-recoil spring system versus the old-school spring & buffer set up (the buffer does nothing to reduce perceived recoil... it just keeps metal from banging on metal...)

1 - 20 of 20 Posts

orfeo

· #2 · Mar 20, 2012

While the dual-spring-recoil-system in the fullsize USP and the Mark 23 is more robust, and can handle a wider range of ammo (you can run anything from light target loads to full-house 45 Super loads without a spring change);

the single-spring+nylon-buffer-recoil-system in all the other current HK pistols is not only significantly less expensive to produce, but it also outperforms the dual-spring setup to a certain extent as far as sight-tracking and fast followup shots are concerned using standard ammo (no 45 Super for example).

harkamus

· #3 · Mar 20, 2012

Hard to believe a poly framed 45 shooting softer than an HK45. Then again the only USPs I ever see are 9mm, so I cannot draw a comparo. Personally, I think a dual recoil spring is overkill for anything but the stoutest of loads.

texasgun

Discussion Starter · #4 · Mar 21, 2012 (Edited by Moderator)

orfeo said:
the single-spring+nylon-buffer-recoil-system in all the other current HK pistols is not only significantly less expensive to produce, .

I think you hit the point... I can only imagine how much cheaper the single recoil setup is versus the more complex dual recoil spring. Especially given the fact that HK uses more expensive all-metal recoil spring systems versus a plastic recoil spring guide rod. "In a world of compromise - some don't" :wink:

I wish the HK45 had the USP recoil spring .... it DOES make a difference - especially when shooting hotter rounds (Remington 185gr +P for e.g.) I still love my HK45 but I'm a bit flustered that its felt recoil seems more than does the "old" USP...

TGS

· #5 · Mar 21, 2012

So buy the old USP. Just because the HK45 exists does not mean the USP isn't a viable choice.

LCSO264

· #6 · Mar 21, 2012 (Edited by Moderator)

As Orfeo said, the USP dual spring created some odd effect on the handgun operation, specifically sight tracking. I'm sure it is cheaper to produce the nylon buffer recoil system, as well.

The HK45 has significantly less felt recoil than many other .45's around, maybe not as soft as a USP, but pretty soft none the less.

sy0qvs2r

· #7 · Mar 31, 2012

Do they make an aftermarket dual-recoil spring for the HK45?

harkamus

· #8 · Mar 31, 2012

sy0qvs2r said:
Do they make an aftermarket dual-recoil spring for the HK45?

Not that I know of.

I for one, wouldn't want to change it. It works just fine. It's not broken, so there's no sense in me fixing it by replacing it. Just my thoughts on that.

chuck s

· #9 · Apr 1, 2012

Dual recoil springs seem to be a solution to insufficient spring length. By using two springs the spring rate can be higher in a given length.

In the M1911 world dual recoil springs rarely appear until barrel lengths -- and available recoil spring space -- get under 4". Some other short barreled pistols use "double wound," square section wire, or flat springs like Glock. All these systems seem to work.

-- Chuck

orfeo

· #10 · Apr 1, 2012

sy0qvs2r said:
Do they make an aftermarket dual-recoil spring for the HK45?

Instead of trying to make the HK45 into a USP 45, why not just get a USP 45? They are available right now as police trade-ins (lots of carry wear, but shot very little) for about $500.

NCDevilDog

· #11 · Apr 2, 2012

The HK45 grew out of the USP Compact .45, which already had a single capture spring.

pistol-training.com » HK45 Interview with Ken Hackathorn and Larry Vickers

There really wasn't a change, as in somebody saying "Let's cut that puppy down" but more of an evolutionary thing. Since the progenitor of the HK45 and HK45C are both the UPS Compact, both of the newer pistols retain the basic operating characteristics of it's Daddy.

harrydog

· #12 · Apr 2, 2012

I prefer the recoil pulse of the HK45 over the USP45. As previously said, fast follow up shots are easier with the HK45.
There are no durability concerns with the single spring in the HK45 with any factory ammo including +P. Some people have even shot 45 Super thru their HK45's on a limited basis with no ill effects. I wouldn't do it but it just illustrates that the gun is overbuilt and the dual recoil spring set up is totally unnecessary for the ammo the gun was intended to use.

brutetc

· #13 · Apr 2, 2012

Has anyone removed the secondary recoil spring from a USPF? Just wondering how my 9 will react with only the primary recoil spring in it? I almost never shoot hot loads in it anyways. Costs too much to make hollow-point holes in paper

-Sean

xfrog

· #14 · May 19, 2015

I've owned the HK USP Tactical (.45) since 1998, and I've put about 15,000 rds through that gun without a single malfunction-ever! About a year 1/2 ago I bought the new HK45, and since have put somewhere between 5 to 8,000 through that gun, again without a single malfunction.

Yesterday for the first time I fired both pistols side by side to get an idea of which one performed best. I was firing standard 230 gr ammo, not +P. I immediately noticed less recoil in my older USP Tactical. I went back and forth between the two guns and fired about 400 rounds, here were my observations:

*There is definitely less recoil in my older USP Tactical, which has never had a spring change btw.
*Follow up shots were faster with the USP Tactical. Ability to pump out a "controlled pair" was significantly faster and more accurate.
*The USP Tactical simply shot more accurately than the HK45. The trigger pull is better, and it just shoots better.
*The spider man grip on the new HK45 is a marked improvement.
*The magazine release on the new HK45 is a marked improvement.
*The location of the rear sight on HK45 is better (in my opinion)
*Don't need a rail adapter on the HK45, it's a standard rail. The USP Tactical is not.
*I like the serrations on the front of the slide on the HK45 to "front run" the gun.
*I have long fingers so the USP .45 Tactical works for me, if you have small hands it may not work so well. The (newer) HK45 has the interchangeable back straps and should accommodate nearly everyone adequately.

I know that is a bit more information than this thread called for, I hope you find it useful.

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TheSteelKnight

· #15 · May 19, 2015

xfrog said:
I've owned the HK USP Tactical (.45) since 1998, and I've put about 15,000 rds through that gun without a single malfunction-ever! About a year 1/2 ago I bought the new HK45, and since have put somewhere between 5 to 8,000 through that gun, again without a single malfunction.

Yesterday for the first time I fired both pistols side by side to get an idea of which one performed best. I was firing standard 230 gr ammo, not +P. I immediately noticed less recoil in my older USP Tactical. I went back and forth between the two guns and fired about 400 rounds, here were my observations:

*There is definitely less recoil in my older USP Tactical, which has never had a spring change btw.
*Follow up shots were faster with the USP Tactical. Ability to pump out a "controlled pair" was significantly faster and more accurate.
*The USP Tactical simply shot more accurately than the HK45. The trigger pull is better, and it just shoots better.
*The spider man grip on the new HK45 is a marked improvement.
*The magazine release on the new HK45 is a marked improvement.
*The location of the rear sight on HK45 is better (in my opinion)
*Don't need a rail adapter on the HK45, it's a standard rail. The USP Tactical is not.
*I like the serrations on the front of the slide on the HK45 to "front run" the gun.
*I have long fingers so the USP .45 Tactical works for me, if you have small hands it may not work so well. The (newer) HK45 has the interchangeable back straps and should accommodate nearly everyone adequately.

I know that is a bit more information than this thread called for, I hope you find it useful.

Should have gotten some pics and posted in the range report section. Good read. Id comment but i don't wanna jack the thread.

ddindetroit

· #16 · May 19, 2015

xfrog said:
I've owned the HK USP Tactical (.45) since 1998, and I've put about 15,000 rds through that gun without a single malfunction-ever! About a year 1/2 ago I bought the new HK45, and since have put somewhere between 5 to 8,000 through that gun, again without a single malfunction.

Yesterday for the first time I fired both pistols side by side to get an idea of which one performed best. I was firing standard 230 gr ammo, not +P. I immediately noticed less recoil in my older USP Tactical. I went back and forth between the two guns and fired about 400 rounds, here were my observations:

*There is definitely less recoil in my older USP Tactical, which has never had a spring change btw.
*Follow up shots were faster with the USP Tactical. Ability to pump out a "controlled pair" was significantly faster and more accurate.
*The USP Tactical simply shot more accurately than the HK45. The trigger pull is better, and it just shoots better.
*The spider man grip on the new HK45 is a marked improvement.
*The magazine release on the new HK45 is a marked improvement.
*The location of the rear sight on HK45 is better (in my opinion)
*Don't need a rail adapter on the HK45, it's a standard rail. The USP Tactical is not.
*I like the serrations on the front of the slide on the HK45 to "front run" the gun.
*I have long fingers so the USP .45 Tactical works for me, if you have small hands it may not work so well. The (newer) HK45 has the interchangeable back straps and should accommodate nearly everyone adequately.

I know that is a bit more information than this thread called for, I hope you find it useful.

You have some insightful information and certainly have put some mileage down on these to come across this observations. Thanks,

DD

mr.goodkat

· #17 · May 19, 2015

Great info xfrog and i would have to agree. i too prefer the dual spring set up. Imo the only reason i think the sights MAY come on target faster is the sight picture is just better than what usp sights offer. I find the hk very difficult to shoot faster and have controlled pairs vs my usp. But i love both my 45's and will never sell either of them. And even todd from pistol trainging has made numerous remarks about the hk45 not being fun to shoot fast because of how difficult it is to track the sights, but he even admits that it is still a great gun. I recommend that any hk fan should have both

leicar7

· #18 · May 20, 2015

Razzman noted some eons ago in threads about this subject that the dual spring USP recoil system caused the muzzle to move in a figure-8 motion that was more difficult to bring back to target than the vertical motion of the single spring system in the P30L. While he might have been referring to the 9mm USP Expert, using jet funnel and 18 rd mags, I suspect the same is true of .45 in the two full sized guns.

echoR00t

· #19 · May 20, 2015

leicar7 said:
Razzman noted some eons ago in threads about this subject that the dual spring USP recoil system caused the muzzle to move in a figure-8 motion that was more difficult to bring back to target than the vertical motion of the single spring system in the P30L. While he might have been referring to the 9mm USP Expert, using jet funnel and 18 rd mags, I suspect the same is true of .45 in the two full sized guns.

Heard same thing from Bruce Gray from when he shot for HK.

Condition0

· #20 · May 20, 2015

I'd like to keep a list of those who shoot 45 super. I'll stay away from your wts ads.

Dan

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