[SauceNJ]

Does anyone here ride the safety lever on their usp?

 

[gunut45]

It a way. I use the thumbs forward grip and when I bring the safety down my thumb comes to rest on my other thumb, while still making light contact with the safety.

Kinda like this (I usually hold higher though)

 

[Hunter Rose]

Yes. I shoot that way ala 1911.

 

[sfguard]

Never have had that problem. I hear others talk about it but for some reason it don't feel natural to me.

 

[HKIWB]

I recently switched to the thumbs-forward grip, and my right thumb gently rides the safety on my USPc. Getting my right thumb up on the safety gives me a larger contact area for my left hand.

There seems to be two schools of thought on the thumbs-forward grip. Some say thumbs should not put any pressure on the frame, while others say they should. I don't apply any additional pressure with my thumbs, and have not had any type of malfunction with the safety or decocker on my V1. As an added benefit, I never forget to disengage the safety with this grip, but my slide occaisionally fails to lock back when my left thumb makes the slightest contact with the slide release. I can deal with this annoyance because the thumbs-forward grip has greatly improved my accuracy and speed of follow-up shots.

 

[w9zeb]

Re-vive the dead I say!

I fired about 100 rounds through my USP .45 Tactical V1 last night at the indoor range adjusting my grip. I found I shot FAR more accurately with a thumbs forward grip similar to the one in the photo above. I found however that when the gun recoils, my thumb actually activates the decocking lever.

Can someone suggest where to put my right thumb in relation to the safety switch with a two thumbs forward grip to prevent the decocker from leaving me in DA mode after recoil?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Scooter]

Get you left hand higher up to fill the void to prevent accidental decocking. Then go out and buy an ambi safety so that if you do push down on the lever, the lever on the other side will hit your hand preventing accidental decocking.

 

[w9zeb]

Get you left hand higher up to fill the void to prevent accidental decocking. Then go out and buy an ambi safety so that if you do push down on the lever, the lever on the other side will hit your hand preventing accidental decocking.

I'll give that a shot at the range tomorrow. Thanks Scooter.

 

[BreakerDave]

Riding the safety is bad form. Don't do it.

 

[Chui]

Riding the safety is bad form. Don't do it.

I disagree. It's the MOST PROPER form if, that is, one plans to shoot very rapidly AND accurately simultaneously.

Check out ALL of the nation's best shooters' grips.

 

[cmdrdredd]

I disagree. It's the MOST PROPER form if, that is, one plans to shoot very rapidly AND accurately simultaneously.

Check out ALL of the nation's best shooters' grips.

Check out their gun too...1911 doesn't have a decocker which can be a problem for riding the safety on a HK with that option.

 

[Scooter]

That's why I suggested getting an ambi safety lever installed.

Riding the safety is the best technique if you have a gun with a safety lever. I've seen people who keep their thumb under the lever, flip up the lever in the middle of shooting. A gun on safe is far worse than a gun that has been decocked.

Riding the safety also ensures that you have the absolute highest grip possible on the gun to help minimize the flippiness of the USP.

This is how I grip the USP.

Even on a gun without a safety lever, I still maintain the same high grip.

 

[BreakerDave]

I disagree. It's the MOST PROPER form if, that is, one plans to shoot very rapidly AND accurately simultaneously.

Check out ALL of the nation's best shooters' grips.

I am familiar with some of the nation's best shooters and their techniques. People can make something work that is generally a bad idea for regular application. Look at an IPSC rig. It's not practical but for their type of competition they are able to get a lot out of it. One of the local cops had his mags in an IPSC style set-up and then he had to go over a wall and later roll around with a bad guy. By the time he was done, his mags were all over the place. -There's a reason why some game gear and game techniques are best left to the gamers. -You would find the similar problems if you tried to import NASCAR driving techniques into regular driving.

I've seen the problems with riding the safety. I've seen HK shooters decock their guns. I've seen regular shooters get the web of their hands cut by their slides because they are too high. And I've seen people try to correct where their thumbs are and accidentally engage their safeties. It is simply bad form.

I realize people are trying to gain leverage by riding the safety. It just has more problems than it is worth. The only time your thumb should be on your safety is if you want to manipulate it.

 

[Scooter]

If the gamer techniques have no place in real world applications, then please explain to me why all the top shooters are contracted by the military to tech the spec ops community how to shoot?

You keep saying you seen people do this, you seen people do that. Well how about personal experiences? Have you done tens of thousands of draws from a holster with a cocked and locked gun? If you have, you will realize without riding the safety, you will not reliably disengage the safety every time.

 

[BreakerDave]

If the gamer techniques have no place in real world applications, then please explain to me why all the top shooters are contracted by the military to tech the spec ops community how to shoot?

I did not say that no techniques are transferable between shooting disciplines. I was using a couple of examples of gamer techniques and gear to illustrate a point that just because some IPSC guy does it, doesn't mean it has a practical application.

"Riding the safety" has been a big no-no for years. First, the gun is not mechanically designed with that type of use in mind. The HK's safety is designed to decock when you apply downward pressure on it. With competition pistols the same desired leverage was achieved with contoured grip panels which had a ledge for the thumb to ride. Unfortunately the USP doesn't have that option. The practice of pushing down on the safety on a regular basis to gain leverage can break the safety and can lock up the internals giving your gunsmith a fun project.

From my point of view, "riding the safety" is just snakeoil. Every few years some gear, caliber, or technique comes into vogue. And then after a few years, people move onto the next thing. A top end shooter can do a lot of things and make them work even though something else works better. Obviously, I believe this technique falls into the category of making something bad work for you...

You keep saying you seen people do this, you seen people do that. Well how about personal experiences? Have you done tens of thousands of draws from a holster with a cocked and locked gun? If you have, you will realize without riding the safety, you will not reliably disengage the safety every time.

Maybe there's a communication gap, but the conversation is about riding the safety during a string of fire which is different from what you are talking about now.

 

[harrydog]

Riding the safety is the best technique if you have a gun with a safety lever. I've seen people who keep their thumb under the lever, flip up the lever in the middle of shooting. A gun on safe is far worse than a gun that has been decocked.

Riding the safety also ensures that you have the absolute highest grip possible on the gun to help minimize the flippiness of the USP.

Even on a gun without a safety lever, I still maintain the same high grip.

I agree 100%. I shoot the same way and all knowledgable people that I know do as well.

 

[Andre]

+1 for Scooter. That might as well be me gripping that USP in your photo. I carry cocked and locked most of the time, hence riding the safety is a sure way of ensuring that the damn thing is off when it needs to be off.

Imagine the look of surprise on your face (and probably that of your enemy) when your trying to fire a shot under pressure and nothing happens...

 

[MaD HuNGaRIaN]

THUMB ON TOP OF SAFETY. About 1:15 in.

Todd isn't just "some IPSC guy" either. This video, if you listen to what he's saying, is about addressing deficiencies in military and law enforcement training.

 

[Scooter]

"Riding the safety" has been a big no-no for years. First, the gun is not mechanically designed with that type of use in mind. The HK's safety is designed to decock when you apply downward pressure on it. With competition pistols the same desired leverage was achieved with contoured grip panels which had a ledge for the thumb to ride. Unfortunately the USP doesn't have that option. The practice of pushing down on the safety on a regular basis to gain leverage can break the safety and can lock up the internals giving your gunsmith a fun project.

Since when has riding the safety been a big no no? People have been teaching to ride the safety for the last 30 years. It's not the latest fad. Top shooters are always trying to find something that works better. They aren't going to try to make a bad technique work. But if you are saying there's a better way to draw a gun and flip the safety off and keep it flipped off, I'm all ears.

HK's safety only decocks on certain variants. V9/V10 don't have a decock, which is one of the solutions to fixing the accidental decocking. Modifying the detent plate on V1/V2 plate to make decocking more difficult is another easy mod to do. Or you can install an ambi safety. All very easy solutions to a minor problem.

Do you have any proof that riding the safety will lock up the internals? I've never seen it happen.

As for a contour grip panel for the thumb to ride on, WHERE? 1911's don't have them. STI/SV don't have them. M&P45 w/safety doesn't have one. CZ-75 SP01 doesn't have any either. These are all common competition guns.

 

[ulose2]

The thumbs forward grip has worked for me for years. I started using it after shooting in a PPC match. I gained a lot of knowledge from old timers who used that technique. My score and accuracy benefited also it has become 2nd nature for me now. My thumbs forward grip however is below the safety lever and the right thumb is against the frame(below the slide) with the left thumb knuckle against the end of the right thumb.