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Okay, I am new to this sport and am looking for info on ammo. I recently purchased the HK P30 and have had it to the range twice. I used FIOCCHI 9mil ammo for my first 300 rounds. I am looking to purchase additional ammo and am bewildered with the nomenclature and options. I am looking for recommendations for ammo and definitions to abbreviations such as fmj, HP, +P, +P+, and such. I am pretty sure hp means hollow point...is hollow point legal (Michigan)? Any and all information is appreciated..also links to other threads, sites, etc would be nice. There also appears to be different gram sizes within a category of bullets? Is there better ammo for range shooting Vs protection ammo that might also be less costly...I know, less costly most likely equates to less reliable!

A little help please???
 

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Okay, I am new to this sport and am looking for info on ammo. I recently purchased the HK P30 and have had it to the range twice. I used FIOCCHI 9mil ammo for my first 300 rounds. I am looking to purchase additional ammo and am bewildered with the nomenclature and options. I am looking for recommendations for ammo and definitions to abbreviations such as fmj, HP, +P, +P+, and such. I am pretty sure hp means hollow point...is hollow point legal (Michigan)? Any and all information is appreciated..also links to other threads, sites, etc would be nice. There also appears to be different gram sizes within a category of bullets? Is there better ammo for range shooting Vs protection ammo that might also be less costly...I know, less costly most likely equates to less reliable!

A little help please???
Congratulations on your new weapon. I'll take a stab at answering some of your questions. "FMJ" = Full Metal Jacket ammunition, also know a "ball" ammunition. "HP" = Hollow Point ammuntion. "P" generally refers to standard pressure for a given loading, "+P" is loaded more powerfully, and "+P+" is even yet more powerful. For example, you probably know that .38 Special and .357 Magnum ammunition are the same caliber; however, the .357 cartridge is loaded with more powder than the .38, which helps it achieve a higher muzzle velocity and have more striking power upon hitting an intended target. A .38 +P and the .38 +P+ would both be increasingly more powerful than the standard .38 special, but yet not yet to the level of the Magnum round. There are other difference to these two rounds (case length, etc.), but this was just an example.

I don't know what the law is in Michigan, but I'd be very surprised if law-abiding citizens were denied the possession/use of hollow point ammunition.

As far as what you called "gram sizes", I believe you're referring to "grain" or weight. When you refer to this, you are generally referring to the weight of the projectile portion of the cartridge. Your P30 is chambered for the 9mm Parabellum cartridge, also known as the 9x19 or 9mm Luger. Some standard grain weights you'll see on store shelves for this caliber will be 115gr, 124gr, 127gr, & 147gr. Generally-speaking, the lighter the grain weight, the higher higher the muzzle velocity. The 147gr loadings are usually subsonic, which is especially useful when you are using a suppressor attached to a handgun. I don't know what you have most readily available to you locally; however, almost any major manufacturer will offer high-quality ammo that your P30 will love. For range practice, I use Sellier & Bellot 115gr FMJ RangeSafe ammo. It's usually priced very competitively in my area and is available in bulk. As to defense ammo, you'll get many opinions on this, I'll just offer what I use on-duty. I carry CorBon 9mm Luger +P 115gr DPX hollowpoints. There are MANY excellent choices other than the loading that I choose. Good Luck!
 

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I'd like to offer a few more points on this. You have selected a very fine weapon that is very well engineered and extremely practical. It can be tailored to fit just about any hand is a very fine, out-of-the box shooter.

I'd like to put a stop to what could easily become a caliber war thread. There is absolutely nothing wrong with any modern production personal defense ammo made for the 9mm. It's all going to make somebody very dead if you do what you are supposed to do: shots on target. Given its lighter recoil impulse, the 9mm may actually help you achieve this more consistently. And, as Da Pro is wont to say: I haven't met anyone that is willing to actually get shot by a 9mm.

My recommendation would be to find a consistent, inexpensive load for practice and plinking. I would also go buy several different boxes of defense ammo. See which one of those performs best for you (control, consistency, etc.). Then buy several boxes of that and practice, practice, practice so that you will know in your mind that your gun will feed those critters without a hitch (it will). Then practice some more. And, of course, sign up for an HKPRO class when it comes to your neck of the woods. Or hop on a plane or in the car and go to one!
 

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Is there better ammo for range shooting Vs protection ammo that might also be less costly...I know, less costly most likely equates to less reliable!
As far as protection ammo goes I don't use hollow points. I perfer ball ammo (full metal jacket). It has better penetration i.e. shooting through cars, walls or glass. I like to be prepared for all situations. But really it comes down to personal preference. Carry what you feel comfortable with.

If you do choose to carry expensive specialty ammo (HP, +P, or +P+) in your weapon and use target ammo on the range make sure that you practice with both. Sometimes there is a slight bit of difference in accuracy. Also don't carrry ammunition that you have never fired through your weapon. Bullets to guns is like food to people. Some people just don't eat certian types of foods and some guns don't run certian types of ammo.

Just my .02 cents on that topic.
 

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More really good points!
 

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Looks like I got here too late to add much except welcome to a great sport, get in some classes they are lots of fun. For even more fun get into some competitions. They are great skill builders, and lots of fun.
 

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I'm not going to knock anyone or their personal decisions when it comes to personal defense ammo. ALOT of personal defense has to do with a mind set and what makes one person feel safe and comfortable might not be the same. Should you decide to carry your gun (and I of course mean legally) you might want to consider hollow point ammo. I use speer gold dot HP personally and I'm going to tell you why, ball ammo gets better penetration, but better penetration is not necessarily a good thing. Penetration does not necessarily equal increased lethality. The intended design of HP is expansion upon hitting target which causes more internal damage to the target due to the expansion of the round. This effect can literally knock an attacker off his feet where ball ammo might actually slide right through him, granted, causing considerable damage, but less than the same round of HP. Also there is another consideration to make, namely, over-penetration. If you shoot your weapon in self defense, you are liable for every projectile sent downrange at an opponent. Now this doesnt just mean the rounds you miss with, this means the rounds that you hit with and the last thing you want is a round going right through your attacker and hitting some innocent person. Hollow point ammo has a lessened risk of over-penetration and therefor a lessened chance of causing injury or risk of injury to someone it's not intended to injure.

There is just my two cents and I am not here to judge anyone or get into any kind of argument. Just some things to consider.
 

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I'm not going to knock anyone or their personal decisions when it comes to personal defense ammo. ALOT of personal defense has to do with a mind set and what makes one person feel safe and comfortable might not be the same. Should you decide to carry your gun (and I of course mean legally) you might want to consider hollow point ammo. I use speer gold dot HP personally and I'm going to tell you why, ball ammo gets better penetration, but better penetration is not necessarily a good thing. Penetration does not necessarily equal increased lethality. The intended design of HP is expansion upon hitting target which causes more internal damage to the target due to the expansion of the round. This effect can literally knock an attacker off his feet where ball ammo might actually slide right through him, granted, causing considerable damage, but less than the same round of HP. Also there is another consideration to make, namely, over-penetration. If you shoot your weapon in self defense, you are liable for every projectile sent downrange at an opponent. Now this doesnt just mean the rounds you miss with, this means the rounds that you hit with and the last thing you want is a round going right through your attacker and hitting some innocent person. Hollow point ammo has a lessened risk of over-penetration and therefor a lessened chance of causing injury or risk of injury to someone it's not intended to injure.

There is just my two cents and I am not here to judge anyone or get into any kind of argument. Just some things to consider.
Excellent point! I should have expanded on this in my post.

I have used the same ammunition in the past and it is great.
 

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Nothing to add, just support all the comments made.

The previous posters have hit the nail square on the head, could not have said or described better.

FWIW, I stuck with 124 gr.( grain, bullet weight) 9mm FMJ ( Full Metal jacket, great movie by the way), for the MP5, USPf 9, and the P30. I am always looking for ammo deals, no days all of us non-reloaders are.

Reloading is something you might want to consider, many here do and recommend it. I tried reloading, but had much less than favorable results with my reloads and the MP5, thus I only buy factory ammo. Some might disagree, but this works for me.

For factory ammo, you might consider Natchez shooters (www.natchezss.com), there's ammo man, AIM surplus, Midway( they can be pricey), or good old wally world.

Hope that helps

Bob
 

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welcome to THE HK place on the web.
Here is an online company, Midway, that I buy from sometimes. They have a "GunTec Dictionary" and the link is on their home page. That may help you with this and other questions that might come up about all the alphabet soup of gun and ammo talk.
for cheep (oh if only there WERE cheep ammo still) practice ammo, something like FMJ (full metal jacket) is good. I like MagTec, because my local gun shop gives me a great price on 1,000 round case price. Walmart is cheep too and they have a couple of brands.
What not to get... Lead bulets, that are not wraped or covered, are not recomended for HK barrels. Most folks around HKPRO don't care for Wolf because it's dirty, and don't like the casings which are not brass.
There are many many many discussions about self defence ammo here at HKPRO, do a search and have a cup of coffee and enjoy some interesting reading, you won't get through it all in only one sitting.
My current choice for on duty, HK .40 fullsize loaded and one extra mag loaded with Silvertip hollow points, second extra mag loaded with MagTec FMJ for that remote possibility that I would ever be in a gun fight where I lived long enough to need a second or third mag and a FMJ with more penitration would help. I hope I never have to use any of them and REALLY hope I never get in that deep a situation and I hope you never have to either.
again, welcome, happy shooting, and Merry Christmas
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Wow, tons of great information...thank you very much. I will further review through the internet and most likely decide on a practice ammo using fmj and protection ammo using hp. And, based on recommendations, will fire both styles through my P30 to get acquainted and comfortable with both before settling on MY choice of ammo.
 

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As far as protection ammo goes I don't use hollow points. I perfer ball ammo (full metal jacket). It has better penetration i.e. shooting through cars, walls or glass. I like to be prepared for all situations. But really it comes down to personal preference. Carry what you feel comfortable with.

If you do choose to carry expensive specialty ammo (HP, +P, or +P+) in your weapon and use target ammo on the range make sure that you practice with both. Sometimes there is a slight bit of difference in accuracy. Also don't carrry ammunition that you have never fired through your weapon. Bullets to guns is like food to people. Some people just don't eat certian types of foods and some guns don't run certian types of ammo.

Just my .02 cents on that topic.
Ill try keep my post short, as this has been touched on and does not need to be beaten into anyones skull. Several years ago I assisted on a case that happened here in my home town. A man was exiting a gas station late one evening when he was confronted by a perp from behind who demanded his wallet. He spun removing his weapon from his holster and fired three rounds at center mass in self defense all of which hit at point blank range. The perp was armed and had several warrants for his arrest, none of which would be pressed upon him as he was DOA of law enforcement... As was a 9 year old female bystandard in a passanger seat, with a pregnant mother in the drivers seat that had a .40 lodged in her lower abdomen parked beside the mans vehicle that had used lethal force in self defense. Without going any further, the man fired his weapon in immediate fear of his life, lawfully using lethal force, and will most likely never see life outside of prison within his natural lifespan due to the fact that he took the lives of two innocents on the scene. Im glad to see that you are here asking questions and eager to learn about one of the largest responsibilities that you can have as a civilian. Most of your questions have been answered already. If you have any others that arise as you move further into your new trade, you are certainly in the right place to get A++ information.
 

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<....>The intended design of HP is expansion upon hitting target which causes more internal damage to the target due to the expansion of the round. This effect can literally knock an attacker off his feet where ball ammo might actually slide right through him, granted, causing considerable damage, but less than the same round of HP.<.....>
You're not referring to the Hollywood 'knock them off their feet" effect, are you ¿¿
 

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This effect can literally knock an attacker off his feet where ball ammo might actually slide right through him, granted, causing considerable damage, but less than the same round of HP.
Knockdown power is a myth, unless you are shooting at metal drop targets.

No pistol round can "literally knock an attacker off his feet" unless the round goes through the brain or spinal cord. Or maybe if one destroyed the ligaments in the knee. If it could, it would also knock the shooter down when it was fired. (Newton's third law of motion).
 

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...none of which would be pressed upon him as he was DOA of law enforcement...
Not sure what you meant by that.

...lawfully using lethal force, and will most likely never see life outside of prison within his natural lifespan due to the fact that he took the lives of two innocents on the scene.
But if it was lawful use of lethal force, what was he charged with? That sounds like just a terrible accident to me, if the shooting itself was legal self-defense.
 

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Self-Defense

.40TAC
"Without going any further, the man fired his weapon in immediate fear of his life, lawfully using lethal force, and will most likely never see life outside of prison within his natural lifespan due to the fact that he took the lives of two innocents on the scene."

Not sure what state this is in, and I'm not a lawyer or LE, but I can tell you that someone asking, even DEMANDING your wallet, is NOT lawful use of lethal force. In California a person B&E DEMANDING YOUR WALLET INSIDE YOUR OWN HOME is NOT sufficient cause to use lethal force. You must reasonably believe that there is a threat to your life or those in your immediate proximity that cannot be averted by any other means.

For fellow HK owners and especially those with CCW privileges, there are seminars on use of lethal force. As we're all law-abiding citizens, make sure you are at least familiar with the idiosyncrasies of your state law before deciding on which man-eater round you're going to pick. And please don't misread this post: this isn't daddy warning that you're gonna shoot your eye out, this is to keep anyone from the anguish that I'm sure that guy is feeling not just for being prosecuted and going to prison but from causing harm to the 9yr old girl and the soon-to-be mother.

Thanks for sharing the story .40TAC
 

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I'm not going to knock anyone or their personal decisions when it comes to personal defense ammo. ALOT of personal defense has to do with a mind set and what makes one person feel safe and comfortable might not be the same. Should you decide to carry your gun (and I of course mean legally) you might want to consider hollow point ammo. I use speer gold dot HP personally and I'm going to tell you why, ball ammo gets better penetration, but better penetration is not necessarily a good thing. Penetration does not necessarily equal increased lethality. The intended design of HP is expansion upon hitting target which causes more internal damage to the target due to the expansion of the round. This effect can literally knock an attacker off his feet where ball ammo might actually slide right through him, granted, causing considerable damage, but less than the same round of HP. Also there is another consideration to make, namely, over-penetration. If you shoot your weapon in self defense, you are liable for every projectile sent downrange at an opponent. Now this doesnt just mean the rounds you miss with, this means the rounds that you hit with and the last thing you want is a round going right through your attacker and hitting some innocent person. Hollow point ammo has a lessened risk of over-penetration and therefor a lessened chance of causing injury or risk of injury to someone it's not intended to injure.

There is just my two cents and I am not here to judge anyone or get into any kind of argument. Just some things to consider.
+100 You own every round you send down range and are liable for any non intended damages or injuries. So if your Ball ammo misses your target but hits someone on the other side of a wall it penetrates or goes through your bad guy and hits someone else you are in deep Doo Doo! I use for Winchester ranger in my USP45 Tactical myself!
 

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Not sure what state this is in, and I'm not a lawyer or LE, but I can tell you that someone asking, even DEMANDING your wallet, is NOT lawful use of lethal force. In California a person B&E DEMANDING YOUR WALLET INSIDE YOUR OWN HOME is NOT sufficient cause to use lethal force. You must reasonably believe that there is a threat to your life or those in your immediate proximity that cannot be averted by any other means.
The state does make a huge difference. In Texas, I can protect YOUR wallet with deadly force if it's at night, or if I have reason to believe that you asked me to do so. I can also use it to stop someone who is fleeing after committing such a crime. (PC 9.41, 9.42, and 9.43).

My favorite is PC 9.34 - I can only use force, but not deadly force, to prevent a suicide. "You'd better not jump, or I'll shoot you!"
 
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