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Discussion Starter #1
Hey all just completed my first Appleseed over the weekend. Shot a 200 but of course needed the 210 to score rifleman.

I shot it with the 10/22 but wanted to switch over to my SL-8 with iron sights. Has anybody shot this event with an SL8 yet? Would love to hear your input.

Want to shoot a 210 with the SL8.
 

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78 reads and no responses

Ok Guys I guess it's up to me to go shoot the event with the SL8 and provide the range report. I would have surely thought someone had done this before.
I'll report back June 12 with the range report.

Regards Henry
 

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I could not respond because I don't know what shooting appleseed is.
 

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I did an appleseed with my PTR-91 F, iron sights of course. I thought it was great to shoot with, I've got an PWS break on it and it was comfortable even the second day. The only issue I had was that the instructor didn't like it. He was all M14 happy, american rifle an all... Appleseed seems to like FALs and M14s, even SKSs and Enfield 303s, over the G3 design. Seems he was not familiar with the design and thought it inherently inaccurate.

Oh well. Can't educate them all.
 

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You might wanna sneak over the border and try it.
Regards Henry
Eggzactly... I understand some of the Appleseeds have loaner firearms. Don't mention attending an Appleseed to Homeland Security/Border Fuzz. Guantanamo is getting hot this time of year... not that they'll know what the hell you're talking about...
 

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Yup had 2 loaner rifles at Appleseed

When I shot the event I made the mistake of slamming my scope on top of the rifle, of course it was not where near dialed in. My wife love's the .308 so she decided to shoot bolt action. Gotta tell ya the wife kicks my butt on the bolt gun. She shoots 2 MOA groups on a dialed in Savage Axis. I'm kinda nervous that she will really take me behind the wood shed with the SL8. Seems the bigger it booms the more accurate she is. Go figure!

The instructors quickly pulled out 2 dialed in 10/22's as they want you learning how to shoot and not farting around with your equipment.

Day 1 is filled with new rifle skills that I never had a clue existed. Lots of fine details went over.

Not saying that these guys will always have loaner rifles but I find that like minded people pull together as a community. We are all giving.

Can't say enough about how COOL this event is.

Spent tonight picking out optics for the SL8. I want to shoot "rifleman" with that rifle.
 

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Don't mention attending an Appleseed to Homeland Security/Border Fuzz.
While you're at it, don't think anything about guns, ever, because the black helicopters are listening, right?

I would argue the opposite. There's nothing wrong with a foreigner coming in to an organized shooting event, but there's plenty wrong with intentionally hiding your true intentions for coming in. Regardless of how innocent or ignorant your intention may be, don't intentionally hide it.

Plenty of Canadians have come in to attend training courses before, including (....wait for it) CCW training classes (gasp, not the evil criminal heat-packin' classes!). You can even bring your own guns for it, with an approved Form 6NIA and something to show what you're bringing them for (event announcement, etc.). In fact, Appleseed Project specifically tells you to ensure that you are in compliance with all applicable laws for the shooting events. So, I'm really not seeing why you think it would be a problem.
Failing to disclose the full intentions of your visit, though, may lead to you not being allowed to enter. It could get you ordered removed (ie deported) and will lead the "border fuzz" to be even more suspicious of you, and give you problems for years to come. Then again, what would I know about those "Border Fuzz", right? Don't take my word for it, just read up on 8USC 1182 and 1225, then figure it out for yourself.

I had understood that Appleseed shoots are more about basic marksmanship (along with some history lessons) than anything else. Maybe I'm mistaken, because you make it sound like some form of competition or ranking system (only getting 200, but needing 210)? There's a few coming up in my area. I might have to go check one out. Maybe I'll see if my AR10 is cut out for that 500yd target.

Alembic, do you think the preference toward M14 might stem from the fact that the founder makes M14 stocks for a living?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Appleseed scoring

So just to be clear how scoring works at Appleseed. During the course of the event and after getting marksmanship training you will have ability to shoot at an Army AQT target. This target is placed at a distance of 25 meters with scaled targets to shoot at 100, 200, 300 and 400 year distances.
The course goes like this:

1. 100 yard target, 1 magazine 10 rounds, loading magazine and shoot from standing position, 55 seconds to complete. 1 single target
2. 200 yard target, 2 magazines, 2 rounds and 8 rounds, transition from standing to sittting, 2 targets 5 rounds in each. 55 seconds
3. 300 yard target, 2 magazines, 2 rounds and 8 rounds, transition from standing to prone, 3 targets, 3, 3 and 4 rounds in each. 65 seconds
4. 400 yeard target, 1 magazine, 10 rounds, prone, 4 targets, 2, 2, 3, 3 in each. 5 minutes to complete

Perfect score 250
Expert Marksman: 210 and you get the Rifleman patch.

This is way different than bench shooting.
 

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Yes Boardercop, I know of Fred and a bit of his program. And I know prejudice and ignorance when I see it. I just didn't expect it to be pushed down my throat at an Appleseed. Why bad mouth anyone's equipment? esp. if you admit you are not familiar with it.

On the other hand the same instructor, after bad mouthing the PTR, made me use his Marlin 795, .22cal. Of course, never turn down a chance to shoot another gun so....I enjoyed it, kept my mouth shut, and learned more about shooting from a smug instructor, pride is not good for learning.

Yes, it was a great experience, lots of good training and advice. I just found the structure to be, a bit in your face and arrogant.

Appleseed does not encourage optics or a bipod. You shoot from field positions. Prone, kneel on one knee, sit, stand, roll over, good doggie.
 

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While you're at it, don't think anything about guns, ever, because the black helicopters are listening, right?

I would argue the opposite. There's nothing wrong with a foreigner coming in to an organized shooting event, but there's plenty wrong with intentionally hiding your true intentions for coming in. Regardless of how innocent or ignorant your intention may be, don't intentionally hide it.

Plenty of Canadians have come in to attend training courses before, including (....wait for it) CCW training classes (gasp, not the evil criminal heat-packin' classes!). You can even bring your own guns for it, with an approved Form 6NIA and something to show what you're bringing them for (event announcement, etc.). In fact, Appleseed Project specifically tells you to ensure that you are in compliance with all applicable laws for the shooting events. So, I'm really not seeing why you think it would be a problem.
Failing to disclose the full intentions of your visit, though, may lead to you not being allowed to enter. It could get you ordered removed (ie deported) and will lead the "border fuzz" to be even more suspicious of you, and give you problems for years to come. Then again, what would I know about those "Border Fuzz", right? Don't take my word for it, just read up on 8USC 1182 and 1225, then figure it out for yourself.

I had understood that Appleseed shoots are more about basic marksmanship (along with some history lessons) than anything else. Maybe I'm mistaken, because you make it sound like some form of competition or ranking system (only getting 200, but needing 210)? There's a few coming up in my area. I might have to go check one out. Maybe I'll see if my AR10 is cut out for that 500yd target.

Alembic, do you think the preference toward M14 might stem from the fact that the founder makes M14 stocks for a living?
Agree with you "almost" 100% border....the "almost" comes from my personal experience taking my shotgun across to Canada for Duck hunting.

I found the Canadian Border Police to be extremely polite, friendly and accommodating. Contrasted by the US side who treated me like I was going to blow the place up and were 100% total A-wipes. I don't expect that sort of treatment from these folks. I can understand caution, I can't understand treating someone like they are assumed to be a criminal, without cause, when they're trying to be 100% cooperative and go out of their way not to make any threatening movements or gestures. I suppose there are a couple of wanna-be rambo's in every office. But they need to be weeded out quickly.

Oh, and I'm certainly not supportive of representing your intentions with anything less than 100% honesty.
 

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Appleseed does not encourage optics or a bipod. You shoot from field positions. Prone, kneel on one knee, sit, stand, roll over, good doggie.
Correct... sorry you got an instructor with his head up his ass. I've watched several take place and helped on the sidelines but was always too late to register and they only take so many per Appleseed. Good thing there are plenty of Appleseeds here in Ohio, so I'll get to experience one first hand.

As far as crossing the Border... you'd be perfectly ok answering the question "bidness or pleasure" by simply replying pleasure. I see no need to inform any one of the fact you will be doing any shooting.

I personally will not fly anymore. Taking my shoes off is asinine. Confiscating my mouthwash, deodorant, toothpaste is criminal. Soon it'll be a borescope up the wazoo. For the past 6/8 or so years, Homeland Security has run a roadblock across a major US highway... Route 91 in Vermont. Approx 3 miles south of White River Junction, you had to stop and answer some questions before being allowed to continue south. This ran all year long, as far as I know. Imagine how happy, or freaked they would have gotten had we not been warned to go around that section of highway before leaving a weekend machinegun shoot up at Eden Vermont. As bad as it sounds, the majority of cops are pretty ignorant about gun laws. Now imagine a bunch of cop wanna-bes (Homeland Security) finding several pickup trucks heading south loaded to the gills with machineguns and ammo.... I mean seriously. I found out about it the hard way. Luckily I was "driving while white", and don't look even remotely Palestinian or middle-eastern. My reply was "I was returning home to Ohio after a few days in the mountains". And that seemed to satisfy the two African American HS agents (who both had to tip the scales at over 200 lb. each).

bordercop... glad you're one of us. Too bad the majority in your profession is just doing it to feed the family.
 

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So just to be clear how scoring works at Appleseed. During the course of the event and after getting marksmanship training you will have ability to shoot at an Army AQT target. This target is placed at a distance of 25 meters with scaled targets to shoot at 100, 200, 300 and 400 year distances.
I fancy myself a pretty good shot, but if my bullets have to time travel across centuries, I don't think I will ever qualify :wink:

I'm getting more interested in shooting this as the discussion goes on. I hate bench shooting. I'm probably one of the few people that shoots better from prone than a bench. Most of my shooting companions think there's something wrong with me for it, but no one can give me any pointers, or figure out what I'm doing wrong on the bench. I am curious, though, how does 40 rounds divide up into a possible score of 250? More points for long distance targets?

I also find a little irony in the organization's claim of turning "rifle owners into riflemen", but then they shoot at scaled targets from only 25m away. I thought they were actually shooting out at those ranges, with wind, gravity, sight elevation parallax, bullet arc, and all those other "real" range factors being put in. Since it's just small scaled down at 25yards, will they let me shoot it with a pistol, instead of a rifle? :62: Maybe my MP5?

I look forward to hearing about your experiences with the SL8. Especially after hearing some of these other comments about preference/prejudice at those events and the reactions I used to get about my SL8 in other venues, I'm almost afraid of what you might hear about your "plastic space gun". My SL8 has since been converted into a G36 clone. Now, the comments tend to be more about what movies they might have seen it in. My concerns about the SL8 might be the heavy forward balance of it and the uncomfortable stock configuration for that first standing stage. I know that SL8's have done pretty well im some european competitions, and it's no slouch from an aspect of accuracy. Do you have the older extended sight rail and factory irons for it? That sight radius should help, since optics are apparently frowned upon.

I had some other things in here, but didn't want it to stray too far off topic. Sorry.
 

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What the Appleseeds do is talk about how the country was founded and how the freedom was won... by riflemen. As my wife constantly says about motorcyclists, "There are so many bikes... so few bikers". Lotza people have rifles... very few really,really know how to use them. The Appleseed events try to instill a certain amount of pride in you to follow (if need be) in the footsteps of this country's ancestors, the riflemen that had to rely on the rifle for their daily food, protection from the indians and fellow ruffians, and to win the freedom of the country. Then teach you how to breathe, relax and shoot. They cover the proper form and trigger control, etc. The scoring is a moot point other than getting a "Rifleman" certificate. Do well enough and you can get tapped to help instruct if you are so inclined.

Most of todays sofa spuds will boast about having a rifle and a few hundred rounds of ammo and the willingness to "head for the mountains" or "they can pry my gun from my cold dead hands"... in reality, how many will actually get up off that sofa and put their money where their mouths are? Todays people? I'd wager maybe 1 percent OF 1 percent. Unfortunately, a lot of us are like that porcine guy hopping around in his backyard practicing patrolling around his chicken coup, y'know... the one that got his guns taken away after being on Preppers.
 

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I shot an Appleseed with an FN FS2000 with an Aimpoint mounted on it. Of course that was back when XM193 was less than $200 for 1000 rounds.

At that time the FS2000 had been only been available on the US market for 5 or 6 months.

No one bothered me. All the instructors were fine with it.

When someone asked me where I got the gun, I jokingly replied, "From a UN soldier who didn't need it any more." At least I hope they realized it was a joke.
 

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I shot the Appleseed in 2009 with a M1A.

Seeing how this was sponsored by Fred's M14 Stocks, I though it appropriate, and figured there would be a lot, if not majority, M1A rifles there.

I was the only one with a M1A and/or a 7.62mm rifle.

Mostly AR's, and some Ruger 10/22's

A few brought their Marlin 30-30's, and were offered loaner 10/22's form the instructors.

I never heard any instructor talking down a rifle there, but there were no HK-type rifles there either.

I didn't make rifleman, but it was interesting all the same.
 

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When someone asked me where I got the gun, I jokingly replied, "From a UN soldier who didn't need it any more."
Why did I instantly think: "Perfect Sig Line!"

Been wanting to do Appleseend for a while.
I should make it happen this summer.
They are so inexpensive. And I think the attitudes and prejudices would vary since all the instructors are typically local to the area of the event from what I understand.
 

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At the time I shot it I ran through about 500 rounds of .223 over the two days. That amount of ammo cost about $100 at the prices of the time. Ammo is more expensive now. So I would probably set up my Ruger 10/22 with an adjustable aperature sight or scope and do it with that gun. But it is fun to shoot it with your "real gun", be it an SL-8 or an AR or an FS2000.

Keep in mind that the manual of arms that you are learning at the Appleseed is not the same that you will learn in a carbine class with a decent instructor. It is based on High Power competition shooting which dates back to the early part of the 20th century. In it you have a tight sling around your support arm and do all of the manipulations for reloading with your strong arm.

In a carbine class you will be doing manipulations like changing magazines with your support arm, so you can't have it wrapped up tightly and immobilized by a sling.

Regarding optics, when I took it there were a father and son shooting M1As with scopes that shot Rifleman.

I would shoot it with whatever optic you normally had on the gun.
 
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