[dms16]

No I'm thinking ALL M4's, hasn't it been made obsolete by the 416? If demand is going back to the M4 what does that spell for HK?

No, there was nothing ever official for "ALL M4's."

<Sigh>...IF both an M4 and a parallel (so meaning 14.5") HK 416 were both 100% identical in price and availability, the 416 would likely last longer and/or with fewer parts replacments and thus prevent a significant advantage for the cost...I think we can all agree on that.

However, THAT is not the case. The fact is that the HK costs 3x more per unit for government sales. And any standard issue rifle (like the M4) would have the TDP or technical data package owned by the government so that other vendors can fulfill contracts (like FN solely filling supply previously filled by Colt, Remington, FN...with Colt being the only one able to legally use the "true" milspec TDP commercially...though the specs are widely known). If you think that gov/mil buys things soley because "it's the best" then you have not been paying close enough attention to what they buy and how they select.

Now, put yourself in the shoes of a military bean counter having to account for tens of thousands of soldiers and ALL of the logistics there in. Is the 416 a 3x better gun?... And if so, can the transition be made seamlessly (often "NO"). And a myriad of other logistical factors come into play over the mere "Is a 416 better than an M4?"

Anybody remember USASOC's URGI (upper receiver group improved)? Seemed like a place a 416 upper could have made a splash. I'm not going to pretend to know how the URGI was selected and what the other parts/options were but I just know what it is and what it isn't.




While I'm a long-standing fan of the 416 and AR15 pattern rifles, I don't see the military messing with replacing the M4 with any other AR-pattern 5.56 like the 416. It's a "good enough" system and they're going to the next generation weapon stuff whenever they make that change. There are those wiser and leveraged deeper into the AR15 game than I that know the tenure of the 5.56mm is on the horizon standard issue military use...just a question of "when?"

 

[igs]

Is the 416 a 3x better gun?

Psch yeah of course it is.

 

[dms16]

Psch yeah of course it is.

:eye roll:

 

[igs]

:eye roll:

M4 has pencil neck barrel and was never meant for automatic fire.

 

[Mrvmax]

As far as hammer fired pistols go HK is still at the top of the Industry. Narrow the competition down to polymer framed hammer fired and they run away w it IMO

Unfortunately, the market is bigger than that. We can narrow down things as much as we want, but that's not how the industry is working right now.

You’re right, I wouldn’t say HK is at the top of the industry. Let’s just hope they never get complacent like Colt or they’ll end up in the same position and they’ll be playing catch-up to get out of bankruptcy. There’s no manufacturer that can rest on their name and expect to keep large portions of the market without innovating.

 

[Moueix]

i just hope/wish/pray H&K will throw their hat in the ring with competition to the Hellcat, P365, etc a P365 sized hammer fired pistol with 10+1 would be a big hit. or maybe at 81 yrs of age i'm too set in my ways.

My big dream is a polymer P7, and 10+1 9mm would be perfect.
I'm 60. I like your odds better.

 

[dms16]

M4 has pencil neck barrel and was never meant for automatic fire.

(double eye roll)

 

[RegularGuy461969]

@dms16

Where is Broken_Arrow when you need him ;-)

 

[PistolFodder]

Psch yeah of course it is.