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Well, a week after getting my new HK45 and putting 800 rounds through it I can say that I am thoroughly in love with this gun. I have never shot another semi-auto pistol that "just works". It's great. Now all I have to do is learn to get my groupings up. I'm still shooting about 2" low everytime. But it's a vast improvement over the first day. I know the HK uses the cover hold sight picture and that's what I have been doing but for some reason (and I think I know what it is, limpwristing before trigger pull) I'm still low. Oh well, back to the range next weekend and more practice, practice, practice.
 

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Congrats on the excellent pistol. Two things may assist your diagnosis of your issues. First is the ball and dummy drill. I don't think you limp wristing the pistol prior to it firing is pushing the rounds low, I am thinking you're pushing the muzzle down in anticipation of the recoil. Get some snap caps and have a buddy load your mags. Then have him watch you firing, or better yet record your shooting. You'll see everything when the snap cap comes up.

The other idea is to get out to a training class. Get to one with an instructor that is more than NRA Certified, and has a resume with instruction credentials. Todd Green comes to mind, and gtmtnbiker98 is in OH too and host Todd. I'd seriously suggest looking him up and sending a PM. He's a good dude and will help if you ask. I also advise continuing to take classes even when you feel you are good to go. I am taking a class at the end of the month. I'll always find something to take with me when I get done.

Good luck, and congrats again!
 

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HK's work with the #3 sight alignment... referred to a Cover Over - or Hold Over sight image...

try that out and see how ya do...




Congrats on the the new HK 45...

I finally picked up one of my own from Apollo11.... Thank you so much Apollo !!!! Great transaction...

I actually get to play with it Monday... !! :) Been waiting far to long to add one to my collection...
 

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Congrats on the excellent pistol. Two things may assist your diagnosis of your issues. First is the ball and dummy drill. I don't think you limp wristing the pistol prior to it firing is pushing the rounds low, I am thinking you're pushing the muzzle down in anticipation of the recoil. Get some snap caps and have a buddy load your mags. Then have him watch you firing, or better yet record your shooting. You'll see everything when the snap cap comes up.
I agree with this. However, I see this come up time after time and wonder what do you do after you know you are flinching in anticipation? No one ever explains it! They just say do the ball and dummy drill. Okay....then what? You know it won't happen when you are dry firing at home. Other than doing the drill frequently and over a long period of time, is there a quicker solution than just observation over time?
 

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You probably dont want to do the ball/dummy drill at home. That is for the range where you will be anticipating live fire, rather than just snap caps at home. The remedy is simply practice and discipline. This problem is more mental than physical.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Congrats on the excellent pistol. Two things may assist your diagnosis of your issues. First is the ball and dummy drill. I don't think you limp wristing the pistol prior to it firing is pushing the rounds low, I am thinking you're pushing the muzzle down in anticipation of the recoil. Get some snap caps and have a buddy load your mags. Then have him watch you firing, or better yet record your shooting. You'll see everything when the snap cap comes up.

The other idea is to get out to a training class. Get to one with an instructor that is more than NRA Certified, and has a resume with instruction credentials. Todd Green comes to mind, and gtmtnbiker98 is in OH too and host Todd. I'd seriously suggest looking him up and sending a PM. He's a good dude and will help if you ask. I also advise continuing to take classes even when you feel you are good to go. I am taking a class at the end of the month. I'll always find something to take with me when I get done.

Good luck, and congrats again!
I do have snap caps and have been practicing trigger pulls, both DA and SA. I will definitley look at taking a few classes when I get back home. Right now I'm in Allentown Pa. and getting to the range again is going to have to wait till this weekend.

HK's work with the #3 sight alignment... referred to a Cover Over - or Hold Over sight image...

try that out and see how ya do...




Congrats on the the new HK 45...

I finally picked up one of my own from Apollo11.... Thank you so much Apollo !!!! Great transaction...

I actually get to play with it Monday... !! :) Been waiting far to long to add one to my collection...
Sight image three is the sight picture that I have been using when at the range.

I can equate my low shots to golfing somewhat. When I get on the driving range at the golf course I can hit the ball whereever whenever I want and put any kind of spin, cut, or pull on it. But when I get on the course I'm a mess. Kinda the same thing with shooting so far. Here at the hotel with the snap caps I'm dead steady, not a hint of movement when pulling the trigger. When I get on the range, I start shooting low.

I can tell I'm not moving when I'm using the snap caps because I have a target taped to the wall and I got a small laser pointer taped to the bottom of the barrel where my tactical light goes(I don't have the money for a proper laser aimer and I want to learn to shoot this gun properly with the sights first. Never know if your laser will fail and you have to fall back to the guns sights). I pull the light off and just tape the laser pointer on and then put my sights on the bullseye and pull the trigger. The laser doesn't have to be where I am aiming but I can still see it move if I am breaking my wrist or pushing.
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Oh, and for good measure, I managed to dig up this old post: http://www.hk-usa.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4644 and thought it was pretty relevant to some of my problems and was trying to learn something from it. Especially post #2 by Furyaturus. Again, sight picture #3, the "Dead on Hold or Cover Up and Hold" is the sight picture that I have been using. I also like the chart that he posted and was trying to use that as an aid to diagnose my problem.

P.S. thanks for all the responses. This place and the people here have been great.
 

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You usually won't see your flinch when using snap caps because your brain is not expecting the bang. As for the poster that asked what do you do to cure the flinch: everyones different, there is no blanket fix. That's why I always suggest training. The interwebs are no place to try and trouble shoot all the varibials. The issue is mental and everyones reason for the flinch is a little bit different. Besides the reason, folks respond differently to how to fix it. I also suggest getting into a few good books on the topic. Keep in mind that everyone has some part of a flinch, the key is getting to a place where you keep your eyes open and can call the shot. From there you can make your own corrections.
 

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To truly cure flinching, I suggest the next time you got to the range, mix snap caps in with live rounds. You won't know where the "dud" is and it will show exactly what you are doing. It will also help train you with malfunction drills. They are an often forgotten about drill to do.
 

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I also suggest getting into a few good books on the topic. Keep in mind that everyone has some part of a flinch, the key is getting to a place where you keep your eyes open and can call the shot. From there you can make your own corrections.
+1 There are a lot of great books on the topic.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Any particular recommendations for reading material? Bonus if I can download it from Amazon or iTunes to my iPad.
 

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HKs use #3 in that picture? I always thought it was #2. That's what I've been using and it's been dead on.

OP what distance are you shooting at? If you're shooting really close it's going to be low.
 

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Glad you are loving your HK45. It is an expert's pistol.

As for your shots, I would say start off with a perfect hold, and slowly squeeze a shot off. Noting your finger placement and sight alignment. At 7 yards. Just do stupid slow and make very very small corrections. Sounds dumb, but that is what I do, I really had to concentrate with the HK45c. She was testing me at first.

Also make sure you are keeping your trigger squeeze equal, and let the shot surprise you. Don't anticipate it. Sounds basic, but I have to do it every time I get back stateside to my guns. And after that I am set.
 

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I would second Matt's reccomendation of the Enos book. Also look at Bill Rogers' book. There is a great part in there about flinching and anticipation.
 

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HKs use #3 in that picture? I always thought it was #2. That's what I've been using and it's been dead on.

OP what distance are you shooting at? If you're shooting really close it's going to be low.
For the most part I have been shooting at 7 and 15 yards. Something that I kinda wondered about is the gun is factory sighted for POA to have a POI at 25 yards, so, it kind of makes sense for me to be having my shots impact low at 7 and 15 yards.

I was thinking "theoretically" that at 7 yards my shots POI would be 2 inches low from POA and that at 15 yards it might be 1 inch low from POA and at 25 yards it "should" be dead on POA. Does what I said make any sense? I know my measurements might be exaggerated but I'm just trying to make a point and use a general example.

Glad you are loving your HK45. It is an expert's pistol.

As for your shots, I would say start off with a perfect hold, and slowly squeeze a shot off. Noting your finger placement and sight alignment. At 7 yards. Just do stupid slow and make very very small corrections. Sounds dumb, but that is what I do, I really had to concentrate with the HK45c. She was testing me at first.

Also make sure you are keeping your trigger squeeze equal, and let the shot surprise you. Don't anticipate it. Sounds basic, but I have to do it every time I get back stateside to my guns. And after that I am set.
What I have been doing at the range is taking about three seconds in between each shot and during that time making sure I breathe. Just slow and steady. Not going for rapid fire or any double taps or anything fancy like that. Just slow steady drills.

On Saturday, I was doing targets with groups of five shots. About half an hour into my range session I put up three targets at 15 yards and somehow managed to get three groups of five shots within a quarters diameter of center. Then, I started shooting low again. I wish I could figure out just what it was for those three targets that I was doing right!!! Or if that was just pure luck..........

I would second Matt's reccomendation of the Enos book. Also look at Bill Rogers' book. There is a great part in there about flinching and anticipation.
I just downloaded Practical Shooting by Enos per Matt's recommendation to my iPad and will start reading it tonight.

Again, thanks for all the positive responses. It is appreciated!
 

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This is a great post and answers several questions I have had when shooting my HK Mark 23 and HK 45. I am reading the same books mentioned and have similar experience to what Username describes. Great post!
 

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To truly cure flinching, I suggest the next time you got to the range, mix snap caps in with live rounds. You won't know where the "dud" is and it will show exactly what you are doing. It will also help train you with malfunction drills. They are an often forgotten about drill to do.
As I stated earlier, that shows you that you are flinching but not how to fix the flinch.
 
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