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I've always been a fan of DA/SA triggers on my guns, but have become intrigued with the LEM action and plan to install a light LEM kit on a USP. If I'm understanding correctly, when you rack the slide on an LEM pistol, the cocking piece is "primed" effectively putting the gun into single action mode, but the hammer stays in its "resting" position, giving you a long double action trigger pull, but with a single action trigger weight. Am I understanding this correctly, or am I missing something? Somewhat akin to the the Walther P99 trigger when it is in anti-stress mode, but for every single shot on an LEM equipped HK, as opposed to the first shot only on the P99?
 

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This video should help.

 

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Rather than get technical on what's going on mechanically, let's just look at it from the operator's perspective. We'll assume you have the LEM with the light trigger pull. The first thing to understand is that the pressure for every trigger pull will be the same. In the case of my gun, it's 4.5 pounds.

You slam the magazine in, you rack the slide, chamber a round, and the hammer drops back down. The hammer looks like it's ALWAYS down.

First shot, you have a full length DA pull (but 4.5 pounds). After the first shot and a trigger reset, subsequent shots have a shorter trigger pull, almost like a SA... until you completely release the trigger, but it's still 4.5 pounds.

If you completely release the trigger, then you're ready to reholster. If you want to fire again, the next trigger pull will be the long DA kind (but still 4.5 pounds).

The exception is if you pull the trigger and have a misfire. To restrike, you merely need to pull the trigger again, but this time it will be a heavy DA pull, somewhere around 11 pounds.

It's a simple gun to operate, with no safety to contend with, and no heavy trigger pulls to adjust to under normal circumstances.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
OK, I think I get it. If you let the trigger come all the way forward for every shot, you'll have a long double action-like trigger pull, but if you let the trigger come forward only enough to reset, you'll have a shorter, single action type pull?
 

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OK, I think I get it. If you let the trigger come all the way forward for every shot, you'll have a long double action-like trigger pull, but if you let the trigger come forward only enough to reset, you'll have a shorter, single action type pull?
Yep, about 80% of my HK's are LEM, love it.
 

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OK, I think I get it. If you let the trigger come all the way forward for every shot, you'll have a long double action-like trigger pull, but if you let the trigger come forward only enough to reset, you'll have a shorter, single action type pull?
More or less. However the pull weight does not change. In simplest terms, it gives a trigger pull similar to a striker (i.e. The same pull every time, with a somewhat short reset) but with the safety and reliability of a hammer.

In a little bit more detail: The hammer has two pieces, the hammer and the cocking piece. The cocking piece compresses the hammer spring and is caught by the sear. The hammer rests on the connector and is actuated by the trigger. When the trigger is pulled to the point of moving the connector out of the way and tripping the sear, the catch is released and slams the hammer forward. The action of the slide resets the process.
 

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I've always been a fan of DA/SA triggers on my guns, but have become intrigued with the LEM action and plan to install a light LEM kit on a USP. If I'm understanding correctly, when you rack the slide on an LEM pistol, the cocking piece is "primed" effectively putting the gun into single action mode, but the hammer stays in its "resting" position, giving you a long double action trigger pull, but with a single action trigger weight. Am I understanding this correctly, or am I missing something? Somewhat akin to the the Walther P99 trigger when it is in anti-stress mode, but for every single shot on an LEM equipped HK, as opposed to the first shot only on the P99?
Yep, you got it. So the hammer with stay forward like it's in DA but you won't be fighting the hammer spring (only fighting the trigger return spring) on that first shot... so it's basically nothing until you hit the "SA" wall. After the shot, only let the trigger out as far as necessary to hit the reset and you're ready for the next round. Practice and you'll be able to stage it, hit that wall, and be ready to send one right as you come up on target, similar to DA/SA but way easier.

Genius and underrated system, IMO.
 

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... so it's basically nothing until you hit the "SA" wall....
This!!!

I have several LEM triggers Light on P30/30SK/30L, V2 on P2000, TGS on P30L and a USP (feels light not sure if they have as many variants).

I've not had the "long, light take-up" on a trigger gauge but it seems nowhere near 4.5# that a previous poster stated (perhaps he/she has a heavy LEM?. feels like 1-2#? at most)

The light LEM triggers feel NOTHING like a traditional DA pull to me, even on the first pull. Mine feel like there is very little to no resistance until you hit the single action wall. Once you hit the wall there is a clean break at about 4-5#. You can fire again as soon as you hit the reset point (a tad longer than most striker fires out there but WAY shorter than a true DAO reset)

Clear as mud?
 

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I've not had the "long, light take-up" on a trigger gauge but it seems nowhere near 4.5# that a previous poster stated (perhaps he/she has a heavy LEM?. feels like 1-2#? at most)
If your gun FIRES at 1-2, there's a problem. V1 on an SK will fire at about 4.5 pounds. V2 is about 7.25 pounds. Elsewhere in the forums I've posted a chart of take-up and release weights with every possible spring combination. It's pretty straight forward to change the springs and figure it all out.
 

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Another advantage of the LEM is that in effect it's self-decocking; when the trigger is released you just have the long take-up for the first shot. I find it easy and safe to use, and re-holster. The hammer shows motion as the trigger is activated, and you can always place your thumb over the hammer when re-holstering to preclude inadvertent AD's should the trigger be snagged during the re-holster process.

Best, Jon
 

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Another advantage of the LEM is that in effect it's self-decocking; when the trigger is released you just have the long take-up for the first shot. I find it easy and safe to use, and re-holster. The hammer shows motion as the trigger is activated, and you can always place your thumb over the hammer when re-holstering to preclude inadvertent AD's should the trigger be snagged during the re-holster process.

Best, Jon
Yep.

I wished I'da discovered LEM four years ago. I should have bought two USP compact LEM, practiced with one and carried the other. :)

As it is, I love my P30SK LEM for CCW as much as I love my VP9 for gun games.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

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First shot, you have a full length DA pull (but 4.5 pounds).
Not saying it FIRES at 1-2#, I am saying that it feels like 1-2# of resistance during the long-light travel portion of the first pull, THEN you reach the 4.5# wall/break that makes it FIRE.

I think you mean the same thing,...but when I read your post in this thread literally, which is what someone that has never fired an LEM would have to do, your post makes it sound like it is 4.5# of resistance from beginning of the trigger pull all the way to the point at which it FIRES.

I found your comment on page 52 of this thread (thank god for google): http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-reference-library/40627-p2000-sk-uspc-lem-trigger-job-part-1-a-52.html

you say 2.5# for take-up and 4.75# for break!
 

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Not saying it FIRES at 1-2#,
Yeah, semantics are a bitch, especially when you're trying to keep it short and easy to read.
Please let me try again.

"OP, just get the LEM. It's the best carry trigger that has been devised by the mind of man. Do it."

I just bought a USP 45c that will be delivered tomorrow. The LEM trigger kit arrives in the mail the following day. I don't even need to futz with the V1 trigger.
 

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Is the HK45C available in light LEM from the factory? Which variant is it?

If not, how involved is it to purchase a factory LEM and convert to light LEM?

Having attempted the TRS once on a P30, I have no desire to do so again.
 

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Is the HK45C available in light LEM from the factory? Which variant is it?

If not, how involved is it to purchase a factory LEM and convert to light LEM?

Having attempted the TRS once on a P30, I have no desire to do so again.
To convert to lite LEM is just a spring swap...not very difficult. The TRS is a breeze with either the modified pliers from HKparts net or a pair of forceps, without the right tools it can be a PITA. I've managed to convert 3 DA/SA HKs to LEMs just by following TooSixy's tutorials.

Chuck
 

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You guys are awesome!

None of the firearms dealers I've spoken with have been able to explain the LEM in the way you've done. It makes sense to me and now I wish my 2 H&K's (P30SK and P2000SK) were LEM but they're not. How does one go about converting the trigger system to take a V3 and turn it into an LEM? I hope this isn't considered off-topic to this thread. My apologies if it is. Thought I may not be the only one wondering after finally getting a good explanation. I even watched the video on the link provided within this thread and it still didn't make complete sense to me.

Thanks!
Sue


EDIT: Wow, how dumb of me not to see the post directly above mine. Thanks for the info! I guess I should have waited to finish my first cup of coffee before asking.
 

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You guys are awesome!

None of the firearms dealers I've spoken with have been able to explain the LEM in the way you've done. It makes sense to me and now I wish my 2 H&K's (P30SK and P2000SK) were LEM but they're not. How does one go about converting the trigger system to take a V3 and turn it into an LEM? I hope this isn't considered off-topic to this thread. My apologies if it is. Thought I may not be the only one wondering after finally getting a good explanation. I even watched the video on the link provided within this thread and it still didn't make complete sense to me.

Thanks!
Sue


EDIT: Wow, how dumb of me not to see the post directly above mine. Thanks for the info! I guess I should have waited to finish my first cup of coffee before asking.

Converting the P30 or P2000 v3's (DA/SA decocker on the rear) is generally not done.
Better to sell them and buy the Factory LEM models.
There are a few threads where folks have done it, but if it were me, I would always see the gap at the rear where the decocker used to be.
 

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You guys are awesome!

None of the firearms dealers I've spoken with have been able to explain the LEM in the way you've done. It makes sense to me and now I wish my 2 H&K's (P30SK and P2000SK) were LEM but they're not. How does one go about converting the trigger system to take a V3 and turn it into an LEM? I hope this isn't considered off-topic to this thread. My apologies if it is. Thought I may not be the only one wondering after finally getting a good explanation. I even watched the video on the link provided within this thread and it still didn't make complete sense to me.

Thanks!
Sue


EDIT: Wow, how dumb of me not to see the post directly above mine. Thanks for the info! I guess I should have waited to finish my first cup of coffee before asking.
Sue,

My understanding is converting a P30 or P2000 V3 to LEM will void the warranty....

Having said that, I've done 2 thanks to the tutorials on this forum (honestly I don't sweat warranties on "tools"). It isn't hard, just follow the instructions on this board. The tutorials also list the parts required. There are also some excellent YouTube videos that do step by step instructions. Check out the reference Library:

HK REFERENCE LIBRARY

My P30L I converted from V3 to V0 retaining the decocker and using a P2000 spurred hammer. This is positively my favorite set-up as this is my IDPA gun and I do a boatload of dryfire practice with it. Due to the spurred hammer I don't have to rack the slide to cock. With either the P30 or P2K V3 to LEM conversions you can either retain the decocker (you'll also need 1 less part IF you do) or lose it, and you'll have a small gap where the decocker tab used to be. Not a big deal really.

One great side benefit to doing this is you'll really get a better understanding of how your HK works.

Chuck
 
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