SP89 SBR Question .. Need clarification from HK

10556 Views 66 Replies 21 Participants Last post by swiss_seth, May 6, 2012

Gris7

Discussion Starter · May 2, 2012

I would like to SBR a SP89 by adding a stock and forward grip after receiving my tax stamp. I have searched the forum but found some conflicting information or no information in regards to answers for my questions. I would appreciate some advice from the HKpros that have SBRed a SP89. My questions are:

1) If I sbr the SP89 do I need to modify the SP89 in anyway to fit a stock and a grip?
2) Can I install a folding stock instead of a fixed stock?
3) Once I SBR the SP89 It can longer be converted back to a pistol in the eyes of the ATF - right?
4) Do I need to have US made parts to comply with 922 ?-alot of conflicting opinions found regarding this topic
5) Why is the 3 lug barrel, important?
6) Are a paddle mag and restamping recommended? pics please

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

1 - 20 of 67 Posts

U.S. Praetorian

· #2 · May 2, 2012

1.) No
2.) Yes
3.) Once you convert it to a rifle i.e SBR, it cannot be made a pistol again.
4.) Once a rifle 922r applies and must be made compliant. Pistols as the SP89 is, does not need to be 922r compliant. Rifles do, which is what you will be making.
5.) It's not. It just allows you to attach a flash hider or a suppressor.
6.) No. The paddle release just is an extra and for many a convienient way to release the mag and you must engrave your mfg. info when it becomes an SBR. Nothing needs to be restamped.

fordemti

· #3 · May 2, 2012

Agree with all the above but will say pic and choose your 922r parts carefully. I have a full USA trigger pack which counts towards 4 parts I believe. Use German parts where it counts. Using the choate side folder that was made for the PDW will count as a part as well as the front K grip if you get a US one. Be careful as anything marked POF or MKE will not be US made and therefore will not count.

TooSixy

· #4 · May 2, 2012

U.S. Praetorian said:
1.) No
2.) Yes
3.) Once you convert it to a rifle i.e SBR, it cannot be made a pistol again.
4.) Once a rifle 922r applies and must be made compliant. Pistols as the SP89 is, does not need to be 922r compliant. Rifles do, which is what you will be making.
5.) It's not. It just allows you to attach a flash hider or a suppressor.
6.) No. The paddle release just is an extra and for many a convienient way to release the mag and you must engrave your mfg. info when it becomes an SBR. Nothing needs to be restamped.

Thanks for the answers. I had similar questions.

Gris7

Discussion Starter · #5 · May 2, 2012

God Bless America. Thank You Very much for the help. Greatly appreciated.

shelby67_27614

· #6 · May 2, 2012

If it's a true SP89 it should be pre ban and 922r should not apply......right?

fullmann

· #7 · May 2, 2012

shelby67_27614 said:
If it's a true SP89 it should be pre ban and 922r should not apply......right?

I also believe ATF stated that a firearm can go from pistol to rifle then back. I'll have to look when I get to a real computer, not the iPhone.

fordemti

· #8 · May 2, 2012

fullmann said:
I also believe ATF stated that a firearm can go from pistol to rifle then back. I'll have to look when I get to a real computer, not the iPhone.

We are of the believe that rule was made exclusively for the bolt on carbine kits for the Glocks. At least that's the impression I'm under. Straightgrain was looking into I think. Hey, SG, did you ever get an answer?

Eldos1

· #9 · May 2, 2012

My understanding is that once a SBR, always a SBR even if it dose not have a stock installed. An example is you can't sell it like a pistol again. The receiver IS the SBR after the first time you "Manufacture" it. I guess it is a bit like no longer being a Virgin.

fordemti

· #10 · May 2, 2012

Good point eidos. Though I'm sure you can get surgery for that now! This is what I've always heard.

Teufelshund Tactical

· #11 · May 2, 2012

The first SP89s released in 1989 (IK date code) are not affected by 922r and do not need the US parts. So, check the date code on you SP89. Generally, having the paddle mag and restamping is done to make the SP89 look more like a real MP5K and increase the value if you ever decide to sell.

straightgrain

· #12 · May 2, 2012

One can notify NFA Branch to have a weapon removed from the NFRTR, assuming it reverts to original condition. It will make it so that the SBR never existed. That said, you will still be left with the original item and its proper engraving.

fordemti

· #13 · May 2, 2012

straightgrain said:
One can notify NFA Branch to have a weapon removed from the NFRTR, assuming it reverts to original condition. It will make it so that the SBR never existed. That said, you will still be left with the original item and its proper engraving.

So it can be reverted back to pistol configuration following removal from the NFA registry if that was the original configuration?

jdonovan

· #14 · May 2, 2012

shelby67_27614 said:
If it's a true SP89 it should be pre ban and 922r should not apply......right?

Nope, if he had a pre-ban rifle, and was SBR-ing it, then it would not apply.

In this case he is "making" a new rifle, and therefore 922 does apply.

straightgrain

· #15 · May 2, 2012

This where things get screwy. I am assuming that you would be selling the once-again pistol as an individual. As such, there are no forms to fill out, no space to write "pistol" in. And since it would no longer be on the NFRTR, there would be no record of it having been made as anything but what it was originally made as. In practical terms, it is a pistol again. That said, you would have the engraving/marking on the gun that would logically indicate that at some time the weapon was something else. It could become a bone of contention, but not likely. As for the 922(r) thing, people get really caught up in this. Let's say that you were talking about an HK94 that was imported before all of this 922(r) mess was created. It doesn't pass muster under 922(r) and would not be importable under 922(r), but since it is already here, it's good. If all you do to create an SBR is chop the barrel, ATF has ruled that you are not in violation of 922(r). Pistols are not covered by 922(r). So it doesn't matter when the pistol was imported. If you create an SBR by *adding* stuff to the weapon, then you are bound by 922(r) as a maker, but not a possessor.

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fordemti

· #16 · May 2, 2012

I think my head hurts now SG. But thank you for the explanation. Gotta love ATF an their rulings.

straightgrain

· #17 · May 2, 2012

If you really want your head to hurt, try wrapping your mind around the fact that ATF's definition of armor piercing ammunition includes rounds which cannot pierce armor and DOES NOT include rounds that specifically can. But we are NOT going there today or in this forum.

Ataim0002

· #18 · May 2, 2012

straightgrain said:
. As for the 922(r) thing, people get really caught up in this. Let's say that you were talking about an HK94 that was imported before all of this 922(r) mess was created. It doesn't pass muster under 922(r) and would not be importable under 922(r), but since it is already here, it's good. If all you do to create an SBR is chop the barrel, ATF has ruled that you are not in violation of 922(r). Pistols are not covered by 922(r). So it doesn't matter when the pistol was imported. If you create an SBR by *adding* stuff to the weapon, then you are bound by 922(r) as a maker, but not a possessor.

This should be a sticky as it is clear and concise. No more going back and forth.

fordemti

· #19 · May 2, 2012

Lol. Too funny.

So basically, in laymans terms, once a rifle, always a rifle, if was a rifle at first. But not if it a pistol then a rifle. Then going back to pistol is ok. Unless its an AR in which case the frames don't get registered as squat. So I can be a pistol one day and a rifle the next as there's no way to tell what it was and when it was that.

And 922r again goes back to being a "making" offense. Not a possession offense. Therefore, should I choose to, I can take a Coharie MP5 and replace EVERYTHING in it with German parts and that's ok. As long as I didn't originally build it with those parts. But then I could build it using American parts, sell it to my buddy and let him replace all the parts with German parts as he is not the one that built it and then buy it back from him.

I like my interpretations better. Who's with me?

straightgrain

· #20 · May 2, 2012

Technically, you are okay with having the weapon filled up with German parts as long as you didn't make or assemble it, period. In order for you to be in violation of 922(r), ATF would have to prove that the parts in question are not of US manufacture and that you did the making/assembling.

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