[partshound]

I would like the HK community to chime in on what they would prefer if they could get a US made UMP/USC.

1. The classic low sitting sights protected by "ears" on the top that do not co-witness with red dot sights. But are intregral with the weapon.

OR

2. Flat- top style that would allow you to use the fold flat/ pop-up BUIS of you choice which WOULD co-witness with a red-dot sight. Just no "protective ears". The flat top would use standard numbered rails so you could take your scopes on and off in the same position and keep your "zero".

 

[DarkPhoenix]

I voted for number one.
I like how low the factory sights are, and how I can see through my eotech above them. I personally do not care for cowitnessing sights.

 

[F22_RaptoR]

I voted flat top. You can easily get things like SL8 sights or other low profile rail grabber sights, but it gives you MANY more options for co-witnessing sights and putting low magnification optics that require a shorter eye relief.

 

[bordercop]

flat top - simply put, the market is aflood with a multitude of sight and optics options. While I personally like the factory originals, I don't see a reason to incorporate a sight system into the receiver/weapon in todays market.

 

[fordemti]

I see no reason to use optics in a subgun. In the distances you'd be shooting, irons would be just fine. I love the look of the UMP just the way it is. You want optics? Buy an AR with a thousand rails on it. Hell I've seen people putting red dots on the side of the gun now. The side. What are we? Gangsters? Mall ninjas? Give me irons or give me death!!!

 

[S5TIIOwner]

^ I'm with Fordemti

 

[partshound]

Wow ! The vote currently is 63% for the "classic" and 36% for the monolithic rail. Both have there merits. I guess the classic "ears" and sights with the long rail in between (as HK originally had it setup) is a good compromise. I just wanted to hear what the HK community had to say about any "updates" to the design. Great comments and thoughts in this thread. Thanks. Keep them comming !!!!

Partshound
Innovative Gun Parts, LLC

 

[fordemti]

So partshound. There always has to be a point to these threads. May I assume sir that you're thinking of making or having made an American UMP?? It would be awesome. I think hdps is at a standstill with theirs.

 

[Ubetit]

So partshound. There always has to be a point to these threads. May I assume sir that you're thinking of making or having made an American UMP?? It would be awesome. I think hdps is at a standstill with theirs.

^ I hope so because otherwise we might as well be talking about what type of unicorn we'd like to ride. I'd love to have an UMP receiver as a home for my 9mm conversion kit. The Ump receivers that sold on Gunbroker recently sold for as much as i paid for my whole rifle though.

 

[fordemti]

Yeah I saw those prices. Ouch. I hope someone comes out with this. Doesn't seem like it'd be THAT hard for someone with the right tooling.

 

[F22_RaptoR]

Yeah I saw those prices. Ouch. I hope someone comes out with this. Doesn't seem like it'd be THAT hard for someone with the right tooling.

Actually it would be QUITE difficult to do... An AR15 receiver is very simple to make actually, no really special tools except for making the cuts inside the magwell which need some special stuff. The UMP/USC receiver has ALL sharp corners on the inside, as well as deep internal cavities. You just can't get an end mill to go 8 inches deep, unless it's 2 or 3 inches in diameter. So it leaves us with the option of polymer injection molding - which then needs the steel inserts for strength and all the design for it. Or investment cast aluminum, which would be the most reasonable way to do it. Still needs lots of special equipment for it though, as well as work with the design, for example the wall thickness may need to be increased so it's not as prone to cracking.

In any case, it would be a very cool project to do, and if someone pulls it off I think they could make a good chunk of money with it

 

[bordercop]

I see no reason to use optics in a subgun. In the distances you'd be shooting, irons would be just fine. I love the look of the UMP just the way it is. You want optics? Buy an AR with a thousand rails on it. Hell I've seen people putting red dots on the side of the gun now. The side. What are we? Gangsters? Mall ninjas? Give me irons or give me death!!!

Yes, irons would be fine. However, a good reflex sight is really hard to beat for quick reactive targetting. Why do you think most competitions seperate them?
Regardless of that, our difference of opinion is a perfect example of why the current market direction is rails. If I were going to make/design a product that I intended to profit on, it would have a rail. The rail lets iron site fanatics slap on a pair of irons, and tech-geeks put on battery powered widgets.

I don't know that I would go so far as full length monolithic, but rails for sure.

 

[fordemti]

Actually it would be QUITE difficult to do... An AR15 receiver is very simple to make actually, no really special tools except for making the cuts inside the magwell which need some special stuff. The UMP/USC receiver has ALL sharp corners on the inside, as well as deep internal cavities. You just can't get an end mill to go 8 inches deep, unless it's 2 or 3 inches in diameter. So it leaves us with the option of polymer injection molding - which then needs the steel inserts for strength and all the design for it. Or investment cast aluminum, which would be the most reasonable way to do it. Still needs lots of special equipment for it though, as well as work with the design, for example the wall thickness may need to be increased so it's not as prone to cracking.

In any case, it would be a very cool project to do, and if someone pulls it off I think they could make a good chunk of money with it

Well if you gotta get all technical!!! Lol. I'm just saying for someone with right tooling and know how, it would by no stretch of the imagination be impossible.

 

[partshound]

So partshound. There always has to be a point to these threads. May I assume sir that you're thinking of making or having made an American UMP?? It would be awesome. I think hdps is at a standstill with theirs.

Lets just say the idea is in the "investigative stage". I'm making the contacts who have the technical know-how to get it done. It will be a very expensive project. So I thought this would be a good place to see what the market wants /desires in the way of a US made clone. The sighting system seemed like a good place to start. Look for other surveys in the future concerning other aspects of the platform that might make it better.

Partshound
Innovative Gun Parts, LLC

 

[fordemti]

I would definitely be in line for one.

 

[partshound]

Well, since you spoke up first fordemti, maybe we could get you a loaner pre-production prototype to play with and make suggestions for improvement:wink:
(when it comes to that point)

Partshound
Innovative Gun Parts, LLC

 

[Ubetit]

I'm in depending on price. I have a 9mm kit that needs a home. Not sure what you think these would come in at but 3/4 the cost of my USC isn't it for me.

 

[EODCOLRET]

While I wouldn't mind a US made receiver, based on the prices for UMP .45 mags, i would be happier if we could get a second/US source for mags.

 

[fordemti]

Hey partshound. I'm in man. Absolutely.

 

[partshound]

While I wouldn't mind a US made receiver, based on the prices for UMP .45 mags, i would be happier if we could get a second/US source for mags.

Hang in there... I'm working on it...:wink: Actually you'll see the mags first (hopefully by summer) and then the receiver later. (oops.. did I just let the cat out of the bag ???... Shhhhhh.) No prices yet. But the point of it all is to make it quality at a reasonable price.