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Well... on one hand, I agree with you about customer service being a factor.... each person really has to stack rank their own priorities when making the determination but for me personally, customer support would be lower on the list when we are talking about a 1650 clone because if I were to have problems, I would feel comfortable sending to a reputable smith for correction rather than relying on customer service. Once you dip into that 2500+ range, then I want it to work out of the box with no further investment necessary. This is, of course, because I already have a substantial number of suitable beater clones but in the past, I probably would have ranked support higher on the list.

So for me, it goes more:

Price
Correctness/Authenticity
Resale value
Function/Support
Host potential

So the MKE option hits everything on the head

If you were

Price
Function/Support
Correctness/Authenticity
Resale value
Host potential

Then I could definitely see how the PTR might be the better option... and if you notice, changing the rank further to say Correctness/Authenticity above price, you would land in the HK range, ETC
 

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Well... on one hand, I agree with you about customer service being a factor.... each person really has to stack rank their own priorities when making the determination but for me personally, customer support would be lower on the list when we are talking about a 1650 clone because if I were to have problems, I would feel comfortable sending to a reputable smith for correction rather than relying on customer service. Once you dip into that 2500+ range, then I want it to work out of the box with no further investment necessary. This is, of course, because I already have a substantial number of suitable beater clones but in the past, I probably would have ranked support higher on the list.

So for me, it goes more:

Price
Correctness/Authenticity
Resale value
Function/Support
Host potential

So the MKE option hits everything on the head

If you were

Price
Function/Support
Correctness/Authenticity
Resale value
Host potential

Then I could definitely see how the PTR might be the better option... and if you notice, changing the rank further to say Correctness/Authenticity above price, you would land in the HK range, ETC

That is true for some but to me its just a Turkish made clone with Century Arms stamped on it which is almost as devaluating as owning an I.O firearm IMO. For me resale is not a concern. Every firearm I have ever sold I have got more for it then I put into it & then some. Hell my PTR has already paid for itself in the short time I have owned it.
 

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I've had my PTR 9KT now for almost two years, I've put 2k rounds through it. Early on I had one issue with peening on the firing pin. But that was corrected, it never failed with firing however.
 

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I have one. I knew I would be suppressing it so changed out the LP and also the bolt. Both RCM. That did the trick. No problems. No malfunctions. Swapped out the foregrip with an HK foregrip, put a B&T side folder on it, have swapped out the castle sight for a drum sight since I like shooting with a stock giving me a cheek weld and the drum just seems to give me a better sight picture. For me, the price is nice and the quality was fine. I would have gotten an SP5K but 1) at the time they didn’t have all the “improvements” (ie all the features that came on the guns in the first place, ie paddle mag release, etc.) that they have now, and 2) you can’t ever find the things available for sale let alone at a reasonable price point. I have only ever seen one SP5K for sale in a gun shop and that was at $2400.00 new. Just didn’t have the $ at the time. So, I ended up with a PTR, which has worked out fine for me. Very happy with it. I run a Silencerco Octane 45 on it and have had no issues at all.

Now looking for a 3 lug adaptor the next week led me into a M249 SAW but that’s a story for another time…
 

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I’ll be honest, I’m not even sure why I’m considering spending $1600 on a clone gun with, from what I’ve seen online, has very hit and miss reviews. But I’ve got a burning desire to own an mp5k style gun that I can’t shake and spending near $5000 on the real deal is not an option at this time.

A lot of the reviews I’ve seen are of the early guns though and many are of the 9ct model and their QC seemed sketchy at best during that time. I haven’t seen many reviews from the past 6 months or so, and I don’t know anyone that owns a ptr of any model. How are the recently manufactured ones?

Do the two little nubs on the grip feel weird or get in the way?

I’ve seen people complaining that the metal hk mags rattle around because the magwell is made to fit the cheap plastic mags that it ships with which are slightly larger? Is that a thing?

I heard it won’t function properly with a suppressor unless you change out the locking piece, but the new one probably won’t fit since the bolts tend to be out of spec.

I don’t know, what’s the general consensus on the late 2021 models? Are they overall worth the money? I hear ptr has a good warranty department, so that’s something but $1600 buys a lot of gun from other manufacturers and I hate to spend that much on a turd, but they look so cool and that that’s why I’m torn.
The PTR "clone" weapons are made with HK tooling. I own one and it is way better than the Century, SW / Bobcat / Cohare , Cetme line hands down. Vector are just as high quality. I have tried each of these, and have first hand experience with each one as well as a military HK platform.
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
I have one. I knew I would be suppressing it so changed out the LP and also the bolt. Both RCM. That did the trick. No problems. No malfunctions. Swapped out the foregrip with an HK foregrip, put a B&T side folder on it, have swapped out the castle sight for a drum sight since I like shooting with a stock giving me a cheek weld and the drum just seems to give me a better sight picture. For me, the price is nice and the quality was fine. I would have gotten an SP5K but 1) at the time they didn’t have all the “improvements” (ie all the features that came on the guns in the first place, ie paddle mag release, etc.) that they have now, and 2) you can’t ever find the things available for sale let alone at a reasonable price point. I have only ever seen one SP5K for sale in a gun shop and that was at $2400.00 new. Just didn’t have the $ at the time. So, I ended up with a PTR, which has worked out fine for me. Very happy with it. I run a Silencerco Octane 45 on it and have had no issues at all.

Now looking for a 3 lug adaptor the next week led me into a M249 SAW but that’s a story for another time…
Thats great. Definitely seeing a lot of positive feedback for them. I’m seriously considering getting one for myself.
 

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I have a 9ct. Late 2019 build. The loose magwell was ABSOLUTELY a thing! ETS mags went strait in the trash, and gun went to PTR. Two week turn around was a pleasant surprise. Gun has been flawless ever since. For what was a $1200-1300 gun at the time, I’ve been very happy. While they’ve had teething problems with the 9’s, they will stand by their work and make it right. And ‘no’ they are not made on HK tooling. Not in the 9’s, at least. Also, tjere were more issues with the ‘K’ guns than the standard (which is true across every ‘K’ gun by all manufacturers-INCLUDING HK! It’s a bit harder to tune the little guns, it seems). My CT has fit other locking pieces, and shot with a Gemtech Lunar, without issue.

Another option I would (highly) recommend looking into is one of the MKE’s that are trickling out from Century Arms. They are 100% contract guns, made whith HK blueprints, using HK jigs on German Fritz Werner tooling if you care about that sort of thing (I honestly don’t care). One huge plus over the PTR is MKE’s cold hammer forged barrel. A step up from milled/nitide, IMO.

Motor vehicle Gas Engineering Industry Machine


I just picked up an ‘AP5-P’ last month (basically a ‘K’). It’s welded in at the right places, and a straight gun. Mine has a surprisingly good trigger. Better than my PTR 9, or the two other G3 clones I own (o luck of the draw on any roller lock). I paid a hair over $1600 out the door for a gun that was listed at over $2600 mere month ago. Had the Form 1 in before it was even released to me (there’s a waiting period in WA for everything, now days).

The one down side with the MKE is that Century will likely not lift a finger to support you if anything does go wrong. They have a long standing history of dropping the ball, or messing things up that they do take back to ‘fix’. So better to have one in hand to look over before you buy. But other than a fairly thin finish I’m happy with mine. And to be clear/contrary to a post above, Centry is simply the importer right now. So their not touching a thing, as they are being imported as pistols, so no 922r pieces to add. Bottom line: They are (so far) exactly like the fine pieces imported by Zenith that are held in high regard just a few short years ago.

Lots of fun to be had.
Air gun Trigger Wood Gun barrel Gun accessory
 

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I bought a Century/MKE AP5 and SBR’d it. (I’m a SOT) Compared to a real HK it’s very close to the real thing. I was so impressed with it I bought the P (K) model and built one out too. I had to polish some paint off of one of the tri lugs to work with my Griffin mount but what do you expect when they paint them. Other than that they function great and for half the price of an HK they are an exceptional deal. The MKE mags work too.

I heard that some of the 3 lugs were out of spec and Century exchanged the guns to make it right.
 

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The PTR "clone" weapons are made with HK tooling. I own one and it is way better than the Century, SW / Bobcat / Cohare , Cetme line hands down. Vector are just as high quality. I have tried each of these, and have first hand experience with each one as well as a military HK platform.
PTR 91 clones are made from... well HK licensed tooling... ancient tooling at that... but their 9mm clones are made from LSC flats and I assume their own internals.

Special weapons tooling is bobcat, coharie and vector. Yes... vector was supplied their receivers by special weapons.

Century is supplying MKE which is a licensed manufacturer of HK MP5's, taking the former spot of Zenith and ATI (If memory serves correct)

So I have some concerns about your claim that vector was better than special weapons or Coharie... and lumping the ap5 with other century builds is concerning as well. Oh... and claiming PTR is using HK tooling is also alarming.

Before giving some innocent first timer a bunch of misinformation, I would suggest you fact check your statement... that way no one ends up feeling duped after they make a purchase and find out what they bought isnt what they thought it was.
 

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Totally agree. Century is selling the MKE which was previously imported by Zenith. Now Zenith states that they will be building their own version of the product in the US which PTR already does. I think only the MKEs are made on HK tooling as a licensed product. The AP5 products are not built by Century they are imported as a pistol as built by MKE.
 

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There is one thing I don't have the facts on... which is: "What, if any, difference is there between actual HK tooling and HK Licensed manufacturing?"

Maybe someone here knows, but in some manufacturing circles, Licensing does not mean "supplied"... it essentially means "permission to copy." In some instances, those companies still develop their own tooling, or receive some measure of support/tooling on some level, but it may not be comprehensive or complete. So what I don't know that I can say, definitively, is if MKE or POF got a tooling shipment from HK and started running product or if they received designs for tooling and then made their own, or if they received permission and then developed their own tooling (or really any combination of the above).

There is certainly the chance that I am wrong and HK literally built and sold these companies tooling, but if I were to guess, my guess would be that licensing means I get permissions and some tooling specifications/designs that allows me to make my own HK tooling which, if correct, would subject my parts to the same variances involved in my competency in copying those designs.
 

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What, if any, difference is there between actual HK tooling and HK Licensed manufacturing?"
As I understand it, tools such as jigs and heavier equipment such as hammer forges were provided by HK, along with official documented specs/blueprints/instructions on how to produce an ‘HK spec’ gun.

There have been many licensed HK builders over the years in various countries. Currently, I believe MKE and POF are the ones I can think of in operation right now.

If I recall, there were a couple builders who have acquired HK tooling second hand, after a licenced builder ceased production (thinking PTR and thier 308 lineup, I believe), but not to say they got everything in the range or process. And being a ‘licensed’ builder doesn’t mean to someone didn’t read the directions, or hire a batch of monkeys to do the labor (looking at you, POF).

Also, the date when the license was granted may matter some. A few liketo point out that some that there’s been tons of deutsche weltraummagie poured into the newer HK models, that they’ve left their licensed kinder to produce arms from the dark ages that will likely explode with hot ammo. What evs. As long as they’re fun to shoot, game on.
 

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As I understand it, tools such as jigs and heavier equipment such as hammer forges were provided by HK, along with official documented specs/blueprints/instructions on how to produce an ‘HK spec’ gun.

There have been many licensed HK builders over the years in various countries. Currently, I believe MKE and POF are the ones I can think of in operation right now.

If I recall, there were a couple builders who have acquired HK tooling second hand, after a licenced builder ceased production (thinking PTR and thier 308 lineup, I believe), but not to say they got everything in the range or process. And being a ‘licensed’ builder doesn’t mean to someone didn’t read the directions, or hire a batch of monkeys to do the labor (looking at you, POF).

Also, the date when the license was granted may matter some. A few liketo point out that some that there’s been tons of deutsche weltraummagie poured into the newer HK models, that they’ve left their licensed kinder to produce arms from the dark ages that will likely explode with hot ammo. What evs. As long as they’re fun to shoot, game on.
I agree with you and “roller locked”. And I wonder what “licensed” really means. Certainly the most prudent factor is “when the license was granted”...
One thing it seems to mean is that it is not the updated versions of the weapon but rather what the gun was “pre-F”. Kind of a snapshot of the design from the past. Not that that’s bad and the MP 5 certainly earned its reputation before the F. But...buying a “licensed copy” is not the equivalent of buying an HK that is recently manufactured. Quality control etc. is always a factor and I am glad to hear that the crooked front sights and trunions aren’t being reported so much on the Century clone. Such things are statistically a non-issue on the HK product but you get what you pay for.
That said...I really like good clones and they are a great alternative if price is a factor....some simply can’t afford or don’t want to afford the HK product and the clones offer most of the fun for half to cost (or better)...
Haven’t seen a current MKE/Century version in person but looking forward to it. Especially at its current price point. It won’t be an HK “F” but I don’t expect it to be and don’t expect it to cost anywhere near that much...
 

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Bah... all of my stuff are clones... I am no elitist at all. I actually own just about all of the clones... lol...but the only think HK I have is a hk45
 

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Here is the short list of arsenal factories that mass produced MP5 on HK tooling (presently under license or at one time) for law enforcement and military that are/ were imported into the US for civilian market;

HK, MKE and POF.

Zenith, Century, Fedarm etc. are all importers.
 

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I agree with you and “roller locked”. And I wonder what “licensed” really means. Certainly the most prudent factor is “when the license was granted”...
One thing it seems to mean is that it is not the updated versions of the weapon but rather what the gun was “pre-F”.
I remember a tour of the MKE plant on YouTube. I think it was around the time WalMart started stocking ZQI ammo, but the video went through the whole plant, just about. I’ll post a link if I find it.

What attributes and changes are implemented in the SP5? I believe the bulk were observed in the beefed up ‘F’ stock/buffer, and the addition of a few more flutesin the chanber (at least I think it’s more-I could be wrong). Anything else of significance?

The argument could be made that the two licensed guns are closer to the mil/LE guns with regards to bolt carriers, shelves, and actual 3rd pin…

Just some food for thought.

That said, I’ll still jump on the first PDW I can find that’s not marked up $1000+.
 

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I agree. the two licensed clones are likely closer to the true HK MP5s in service with military or LE groups worldwide. They h e been made for decades in that configuration. The F came along late in the MP5’s history and at the end of (or even after) the SMG’s heyday.
The biggest change in the F is in the Locking Roller Holder. This is the most common breakage point in the MP5. I have seen 1 Agency issue mid-80’s vintage MP5 fail here. Easy fix and anecdotal as its the only one I have seen break/was there when it happened /and in a high mileage/over-mag dump abused gun no less, but it did happen. Anyhow, this failure is consistent with what HK found that this is the most common breakage point in the gun. The reason for the upgrade? The F (for French) came about when the French Police wanted the ability to shoot the equivalent of proof loads (above NATO and +P+ pressure) and a lot of them....with no breakages. HK took lessons learned from the .40 and 10mm MP5’s and developed the F (HK calls it E2 I think) in 1998.
I am sure it has happened somewhere by someone...but I have never seen an F break. The F has other things that help with drop tests etc. but I think the roller locker holder is the biggest upgrade. It would seem that this upgrade is also what allowed the F to successfully blow through the French tests. Not sure any of the new SMG crop could pass this test. Maybe they could but don’t know...
Jim Schutz was a wonderful resource on all things HK. He did an interview with SAR where he dove deeper into the upgrades and why they were done. IMO he was the most accurate information on such things and if I said anything contrary to him....go with him!
If you are interested in the upgrades I would read that article.
Apologies but it’s apparently beyond my ability to link the article here. I spend too much time reading about these things to learn how to operate a computer as well as an 8yo.....oh well.
Again, enjoy your gun. Any good clone is really cool and the MP5 made its reputation long before the F was developed.
 

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When I bought my 9CT, I went into it thinking since I’m not going to be relying on it for anything serious, I can always take advantage of the lifetime warranty and PTRs good customer service. Might be out of a fun MP5 clone for a couple months if I have to send it in multiple times, but I’m okay with that
 
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