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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I watch the web pretty regularly, and take note to supply and demand, prices ect. What I am starting to notice is that clones have went up to $1600-2k and higher for quality custom stuff. I know their are a hand full of active builders here on HKpro. Joe (DT) has been busy and so has Ghillie (Para). But what I am noticing is that the Vecters, Bobcats, Coharies, Special Weapons, Bellators ect. guns have all but disappeared on the auctions sites. Sites like Gunbroker and Gunsamerica, used to have plenty avalible to buy. Lately only a few here and there. Whats going on in the industry world with these guns? This is great for the custom builders. Im sure you guys have the latest news on whats going on out there? Even Blackmarketparts is all out of stock with most everything. I heard rumors that the MKE guns stopped being imported. The few MKEs I see all all $2k+ So whos still building clones? Are we going to see the day come when sub $2000 guns don't exist? Joe, Jeff please chime in, I know you guys have the skinny on whats going on out there. Thanks guys in advance...................
 

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Order a gun from DJ.
 

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I agree order a clone from Dave Getz = DJ here on the forums he goes above and beyond as far as customer service goes and if you have a problem he takes care of it. I have had nothing but good positive deals with Dave and would not hesitate sending him my hard erned cash.
 

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I watch the web pretty regularly, and take note to supply and demand, prices ect. What I am starting to notice is that clones have went up to $1600-2k and higher for quality custom stuff. I know their are a hand full of active builders here on HKpro. Joe (DT) has been busy and so has Ghillie (Para). But what I am noticing is that the Vecters, Bobcats, Coharies, Special Weapons, Bellators ect. guns have all but disappeared on the auctions sites. Sites like Gunbroker and Gunsamerica, used to have plenty avalible to buy. Lately only a few here and there. Whats going on in the industry world with these guns? This is great for the custom builders. Im sure you guys have the latest news on whats going on out there? Even Blackmarketparts is all out of stock with most everything. I heard rumors that the MKE guns stopped being imported. The few MKEs I see all all $2k+ So whos still building clones? Are we going to see the day come when sub $2000 guns don't exist? Joe, Jeff please chime in, I know you guys have the skinny on whats going on out there. Thanks guys in advance...................
Funny, I was thinking of the same thing.

I check the boards regularly and notice that there is no much out there for sale. And if its for sale, they want a lot. Even the parts kits are very expensive or hard to find or do not exist, especially for .40 SW. I do see lots of the HK 22lr Mp5s for sale.

I do like the prices going up b/c if I need to sell in the future, I know I can make some $$$$.
 

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I watch the web pretty regularly, and take note to supply and demand, prices ect. What I am starting to notice is that clones have went up to $1600-2k and higher for quality custom stuff. I know their are a hand full of active builders here on HKpro. Joe (DT) has been busy and so has Ghillie (Para). But what I am noticing is that the Vecters, Bobcats, Coharies, Special Weapons, Bellators ect. guns have all but disappeared on the auctions sites. Sites like Gunbroker and Gunsamerica, used to have plenty avalible to buy. Lately only a few here and there. Whats going on in the industry world with these guns? This is great for the custom builders. Im sure you guys have the latest news on whats going on out there? Even Blackmarketparts is all out of stock with most everything. I heard rumors that the MKE guns stopped being imported. The few MKEs I see all all $2k+ So whos still building clones? Are we going to see the day come when sub $2000 guns don't exist? Joe, Jeff please chime in, I know you guys have the skinny on whats going on out there. Thanks guys in advance...................

give me a call some time bro...
 

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Some I think is pre election buy up that is started.
+1 It seems prices are up and availability is down. Of course the last time there was a ban, those that voted for it tended not to have a job after their next election cycle. Most carrier politicians are looking for their next office. Even with a an anti gun President, Congress make the laws. YMMV.

Scott
 

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thank you gentleman for the kind words. We are also coming out with a german parts kit build(s) in the next few months. Both pistols & rifles. I'll post details as we work everything out. I think you will be very pleased!
Dj
 

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Great to hear! Honestly...guys like Ghillie, DJ, etc keep most of us in the HK game. Thanks for all you guys do.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
thank you gentleman for the kind words. We are also coming out with a german parts kit build(s) in the next few months. Both pistols & rifles. I'll post details as we work everything out. I think you will be very pleased!
Dj
DJ,
I appoligize I didnt mean to forget you. Thanks for what you do. I am always a potential buyer:)
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Great to hear! Honestly...guys like Ghillie, DJ, etc keep most of us in the HK game. Thanks for all you guys do.
agreed +1
 

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Maybe all of the negative reviews on Todd's crap product finally convinced people it is better to go with a trusted builder.

I know most gunshops wont touch the turds that are Coharies etc. And the gun shops owners dont want to get invovled in all the nuances of German or RCM parts to fix a crap rifle.

I think we are especially patient here at the clone forum to be willing to put the time and money into the lesser quality clones in order to get them to work. The vast majority of people expect to buy a gun and have it work at least 95% of the time out of the box

thats my perspective anyway
 

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Well, I waited to see if anyone was willing to publicly post an answer before I did as I wanted to give others the opportunity to share what they know.

1) MKE is done here in the U.S. A legal "matter" that has transpired has pissed off the Turks so they pretty much gave the U.S. market a single-finger-salute. Pricing will be as anything else... supply/demand. At $1200-$1400 there was a demand. At $2000, who knows.

2) TB has fled to Hawaii. For all accounts he is still active in the market but the dwindling inventories of his several entities leaves you wondering if fishing for Mahi-Mahi is his primary activity these days. Wendy still heads BMP and it appears his wife heads Tactical Weapons but with el'capitan over in the Pacific islands, who knows if anyone is really piloting the mothership.

3) PTR is going strong. Whether or not they will jump into the pistol-caliber guns is up for debate, but I would not count on it any time soon.

4) Vector is probably the company I know least about, but they have a huge and loyal following even with all the QA problems they have been having. They are following the popular trends as seen with their new reverse-stretch gun, but they will need to step-up their QA (in my opinion) if they want to continue to get their asking prices.

Now that leaves the smaller builders. DJF is trying his hand at the manufacturing business with the run of guns he's been working on. Assuming he can russle the parts in and still be able to maintain the sub-$1800 price point I think the community will have a winner on their hands. The issue for him is going to be supply of quality parts at a price low enought to be profitable in the sub-$1800 market. If you take that BMP barreled upper, fill it with RCM parts and quality furniture, you're already $1500+ without making a profit yet. Attractive for the DIY'er but to run it for a profit margin might be tough. As I noted, if he can pull it off it will be a big win for the community.

Pretty much everyone else falls into the $2000+ category and is what I consider "limited" production. At the higher end of the scale you have myself, IGF, RTDS and at the lower end you have Turner, PCS and TPM (although you don't see much of their work). There is also an emerging company, Riverman, whos name has come up in the past but again, not much seen or heard about their guns.

Ultimately, the days of the sub-$2000 pistol-caliber roller-lock are nearing its end. German kit guns are going to necessiate the $2000 price point simply because of the price of the kit. RCM based guns just the same because of the price of the parts. The only way to get back into the $1500 and lower realm is lower costing parts, which I already touched on early with the TB topic. So unless someone wants to jump in and take over his spot, start saving your pennies!
 

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So the shortened version is we can still get a quality build from 6 places. The bad news is it isn't going to be cheap as parts are more expensive and harder to find.

As Police Departments move away from roller lock guns and towards the short/small uppered M16 platform, parts may get even more scarce after the first round of the roller locks being dumped by them. They simply are being replaced with different platforms.
 

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There are entities in the work to solve the shortage of parts kits hopefully this will come through .
If it does the estimated price that was given to me will be the lowest we've seen in years that all I am able to say .
I may no more very soon if so I will let all know. I will be gone at the end of this month in reference to this for one week.
 

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So the shortened version is we can still get a quality build from 6 places. The bad news is it isn't going to be cheap as parts are more expensive and harder to find.

As Police Departments move away from roller lock guns and towards the short/small uppered M16 platform, parts may get even more scarce after the first round of the roller locks being dumped by them. They simply are being replaced with different platforms.
There won't be a shortage of MP5 kits for quite a long time. German MP5 parts simply command what they do. Even if MKE MP5 parts kits hits the market (hypothetically), the quality of those parts are inferior to those of German HK and will not affect the pricing of the German kits. They could however, re-open the sub-$1500 market in leiu of emerging U.S. maufacture.
 
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