With the sale going on at PSA and the mag rebate, I'm pretty tempted to pick up a VP9. I've been watching some reviews and I have seen a few comments that the VP9 has more muzzle flip or more felt recoil than other poly 9's. VP9 owners, what are your thoughts?
The VP9 and muzzle flip
DamnYankee
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B&T APC9Pro, VP9 Match, SIG Spear-LT, P365, P320, G19.5MOS, SIG MPX, P229 Pro, P320 SpectreComp, M18
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I love how people still subscribe to the bore axis argument,
The Beretta 92 has basically the same bore axis as a 1911 or a P226. You read up on the experts in the forums, they will critisize the P22x all day for it's high BA and not a peep about the B92 or 1911 being unshootable.
The lowest BA gun is the R51, if the manufactures can really make a case for low bore axis = less recoil, who wouldn't want that? They would be best-sellers. Meanwhile the R51 is out of business and the Steyr M9 is far, far away from being a best seller.
We give CCW courses and the P320 is one of our demo guns, a large amount of people have stated that the P320 9mms handle recoil better than Glock 9mms. From my personal collection of P320s, I feel that the recoil impulse is lighter on those than with my Glocks.
Bore axis arguments are BS. It all depends on grip, ammo type, metal vs. polymer frame, overall weight of pistol, guide rod spring weights, etc. Either way, no serious person has any business complaining that shooting 9mm can become unmanageable.
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The Beretta 92 has basically the same bore axis as a 1911 or a P226. You read up on the experts in the forums, they will critisize the P22x all day for it's high BA and not a peep about the B92 or 1911 being unshootable.
The lowest BA gun is the R51, if the manufactures can really make a case for low bore axis = less recoil, who wouldn't want that? They would be best-sellers. Meanwhile the R51 is out of business and the Steyr M9 is far, far away from being a best seller.
We give CCW courses and the P320 is one of our demo guns, a large amount of people have stated that the P320 9mms handle recoil better than Glock 9mms. From my personal collection of P320s, I feel that the recoil impulse is lighter on those than with my Glocks.
Bore axis arguments are BS. It all depends on grip, ammo type, metal vs. polymer frame, overall weight of pistol, guide rod spring weights, etc. Either way, no serious person has any business complaining that shooting 9mm can become unmanageable.
Semi-Auto Rifles and Pistols, Revolvers, Shotguns, Surplus Guns, Black Powder Handguns--Any Gun Type
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Thanks for posting the chart. It's pretty interesting to see where the VP9 sits among the crowd. Had you not written the paragraph about all of the factors that contribute to muzzle rise, I would have written something similar. The height of the bore axis is just one factor among many.
To your comment about 9mm recoil in general, I don't think people are complaining about the VP9's recoil in general. Rather, I think they're complaining about the muzzle rise and how it affects getting back on target from shot to shot. As I've said before, the problem people have with muzzle flip from the VP9 is a grip problem. In the short time I've had my VP9, I've been able to detect varying amounts of muzzle rise based on how I seat my grip on the weapon, and that's just been a natural part of getting to know it better. I have a P365, which is a lot smaller and lighter than a VP9, and it took some experimentation to establish the best grip, but despite it diminutive size and light weight, it is not flippy.
Any pistol will exhibit more muzzle rise when you first fire it, and that muzzle rise will decrease as you adapt your hand to its grip contours. It just takes some time and deliberate effort.
I never really noticed any more muzzle flip on the VP9L compared to other guns I own of similar size. The VP9 is actually soft shooting to me and really fits my hands better than other grip/frames, due to it's grip pieces. With the deals going on now, if you are looking to get a VP9, there is no better time.
B&T APC9Pro, VP9 Match, SIG Spear-LT, P365, P320, G19.5MOS, SIG MPX, P229 Pro, P320 SpectreComp, M18
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I carry a P365 as a pocket gun, it is hands down in my 3 favorite pistols right now. While it tends to be a little snappy due to the small grip size, the overstrung guide rod and slide weight make it return to battery super fast, it tracks very fast which I love. What a great 9mm pocket gun.
Semi-Auto Rifles and Pistols, Revolvers, Shotguns, Surplus Guns, Black Powder Handguns--Any Gun Type
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I'm at over 4000 rounds through my own P365 and also carry it all the time. I even put over 6000 rounds through my P938 before I got the P365. Pocket pistols have come a long way since the days of the PPK and Seecamp. There's no way a 9mm pistol could ever have been as small then as they are now, let alone fit 10 rounds into something that goes into a pocket like the P365.
I can't wait to get my hands on an SFP9CC to compare it to the P365, by the way. That looks like a great follow-up to the P365.
B&T APC9Pro, VP9 Match, SIG Spear-LT, P365, P320, G19.5MOS, SIG MPX, P229 Pro, P320 SpectreComp, M18
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The SFP9cc design is essentially 100% completed, A German state police just adopted it to be delivered mid-2024, work is HK USA may reveal it at SHOT in Jan. If it is solid, it will probably be the only worthy 365 competition.
Polizei Schleswig-Holstein beschafft SFP9-Pistolenfamilie von Heckler&Koch - erster Erfolg fĂĽr die mikrokompakte SFP9CC
Die Landespolizei Schleswig-Holstein beschafft erneut Pistolen aus Heckler&Kochs SFP9-Familie.
soldat-und-technik.de
I shoot heavier Sig 226 guns and Stacattos and of course they weigh more and are less flippy. One reason you do not see many HK handguns in competitions. But HK has a nice balance of weight and performance especially for carry. The guns are more than capable of being able to shoot well, but if your shooting a 9mm 1911, its going to be a bit more jumpy. And no gun is going to be more reliable. No free lunch, anywhere.
PB
PB
Semi-Auto Rifles and Pistols, Revolvers, Shotguns, Surplus Guns, Black Powder Handguns--Any Gun Type
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That's my exact take on it, too.
Does that fit in standard VP9 holsters?While not needed, adding the Align Tactical thumb rest further improved my recoil management after I figured out the best side and back straps for my grip style. There are a few other threads that go into people’s preferences for configuring the grip straps.
HK VP9 Thumb Rest Takedown Lever
The Align Tactical® THUMB REST TAKEDOWN LEVER is compatible with all HK® VP9/VP40/SFP9® standard and long slide pistols, including VP9A1-F and VP9A1-K models (Not recommended for VP9SK® Sub-Compacts as additional 1.4 mm of clearance is required within channel). Hardened S7 tool steel part...www.aligntactical.com
Agree, spot on and congrats on the P226s and Stacattos. Fun guns. đź‘Ť
Rant- Yep, IMO weight is such a huge factor. It is a significant/real, repeatable and contributing factor to less recoil. Drawing conclusions based solely on bore height (and simultaneously ignoring other factors like-what impact sinking the bore while still having to have the parts that operate the hammer/striker above your hand has on wrist/hand positioning and the loss in control there) is weak. As you said, no free lunches. Recently shooting a non-HK with a high bore axis, fantastic neutral wrist positioning while firing, that weighs over 40oz. Amazing/never lose the dot shooting/flat shooting weapon. But…but….”its got a high bore axis”. Yep. And it’s doing great in competitions where speed is a factor. I would suspect that much weight on a VP or P30 would be fantastic…but I wouldn’t want to carry them or any gun that weighs that much doesn’t have a stock...
Want the lowest of low bore axis’…and expect no downside? Doesn’t work like that.
Of course with training any gun can be shot well and some serious individuals use (and prefer) both low and high bore axis weapons to great effect and some of the market dominating low bore pistols are fantastic.
But the absolutes…”it has a higher bore axis which makes it so flippy”….because physics…”. I wonder how far they went in those physics classes. My HS didn’t touch on this, too many other factors at play.
Ignoring the HKs (never shot an flippy USP) and Sigs (and competition speed records set with Sigs)….i wonder if anyone ever shot a B92 and thought it was flippy?
Not in standard holsters, but there are many companies that do make holsters ready to receive the thumb rest. Follow the link and near the bottom are the brands that do.
Ah! Much obliged.
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I'm not sure if I agree with that... But in all honesty, why not go to a indoor range that has rentals and shoot one before you buy?
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I'm curious if HK would ever include a nylon buffer or double spring in the VP9 like in the P30 or USP respectively.
DPM makes a multi-spring system for the VP9. I added this to my VP9L and it seems to be an improvement. I still need to run it in a match to see if it’s significant.
Pretty sure HK won’t be revisiting the recoil reduction systems of the full size USP and Mark. All subsequent designs since the Elite and Expert have followed the more traditional RSA of the USPC. I think it’s safe to say they are done with it.
That is not a comment on personal likes…just where I am guessing they are (or are not) going based on what they have done over the last couple of decades.
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