[retrodog]

I've been experimenting with the rifles for years. Both genuine and clones. Had a lot of fun debugging the clones. Learned a lot about problems common between the two categories and problems inherent primarily to clones. Read many remarks from many posters who stated, "HK or nothing" and various other things similar in nature. Sometimes I even defended the clones. But I still had HKs as well. A few of the clones are damn fine guns. Some took a bit of work. But I'm an engineer and find stuff like this interesting, so I get a certain degree of fun out of things when they don't work.

Well recently I've had two notable experiences. The first was the purchase of an SP5k. After a little work to modify a FA bolt carrier and the grip for my sear pack, I took it to the range. It ran perfect right from the start with no bad or questionable behavior at all. It was sweet. And it felt like full auto nervana.

Last weekend I finally got around to engraving my HK94. Had the gun for about 6 years and the stamp for 2. So yeah, I obviously wasn't in a hurry. Anyway, cut the barrel down and took it shooting last night. Same thing as the SP5k, ran perfect. Another sensation of full auto excellence.

On my way home I still felt like I got cheated out of a little effort and experience, in a weird and twisted way. I'll still want to put a lot more rounds through them but already feel the warm fuzzies of what can only be described as pure excellence.

And before you post something negative or tell me that they will eventually fail... Don't kill my buzz bro. Post that stuff later.

:biggrin:

 

[ARCTICDETH]

It must be rapture to have a daughter firearm, and live in a free state such as Texas. NICE!!!!
I'm jealous

 

[LongDuck]

Well, many of us don't have the time or inclination to spend what little free time we have at the range tinkering and swapping parts insyead of shooting. In that instance, the HK purists will insist on factory German to avoid that kind of hassle and expense. My experience with Factory Oberndorf has been nothing but stellar if you want a host of MGs that can be paired with a sear and run reliably from the start.

Therein lies the pride of ownership of many fine and well-engineered items,

 

[sheepdogconcept]

i have the opposite experience with hk's thus the reason i have been on this forum so long with so few post. of all the weapons i have in the shop i spend the most time fine tuning hk's and most my shooting buddies experience the same thing with their hk's. most of our problems stem from bad mags, problems stemming from that stupid shelf and workarounds like paddle mag releases, not to be neglected bolt gaps, ejector problems and chewed up and spit out brass grinding machine they are.

but hey i like them especially the mp5/sd, k's and reverse stretch, the best most reliable hk's i have to shoot and never worry about them are the crappy c93's they shoot like crazy. once i accidentally loaded a 5.45 round in a c93 and it was life threatening to get it out but i did. that fluted chamber was like a kurt machine vise. overall i like the hk's the more i mess with them they have their quirks like everything else. ideally you would like to get a complete weapon built and leave it alone, allot of problems come from moving trigger packs around with me anyway.

 

[Guido02]

OP I Agree. I get a great deal of pleasure from tinkering and problem solving. I recently bought a Shrike and it's been a real challenge, but I know I'll get it running and it will be extremely gratifying when I do.

 

[Chopstix Kid]

There's always Hi-Point

 

[rickj1nd]

There's always Hi-Point

Gotta admit Joe... That right there was funny!!

 

[retrodog]

Just to be clear, my clone collection so far is just Vector, SW, Coharie, and PTR. So I can't really speak for any of the other guys. Especially not the ones that I consider more like custom builds. But most of my clones have each had their very own special little issue that had to be overcome.

SW5 (pistol hammer spring, better bolt head)
CA89k(better bolt head)
V53 (unbuffered MP5 stock)
PTR91(ammo picky)
V51 (correct locking piece)
Coharie SD (better bolt head & trigger pack)
CA53AR (steel case ammo only)
PTR32 (---)
SW5k barreled upper (no problems, but used premium parts to complete)
V93 (furniture replacement: not functional issue)
C93 (---)
Coharie CA89-40 (still in work, well actually on back burner, way back)

That's all I can recall at this point. So all that considered, even though some have worked flawlessly since I got them, it's nice to get a couple of new guns (new to me) and have them work right away. Even though the SP5K has got a clone FA carrier in it now. :biggrin:

 

[ATL_Matt]

Retrodog, I have a PTR 32 PDW that has yet to run a full clip in F/A without jamming that just has your name written all over it. I could envision countless hours of tinkering fun in store for you ;-) I've tried everything ever mentioned but no joy as my tinkering powers and patience hit a PTR (pretty tough roadblock).

Heck, I'd pay you to get it running like a top but given the joy you get from the process, it almost doesn't seem right.

Too funny - glad you're HK's are running great. Matt

 

[retrodog]

Retrodog, I have a PTR 32 PDW that has yet to run a full clip in F/A without jamming that just has your name written all over it. I could envision countless hours of tinkering fun in store for you ;-) I've tried everything ever mentioned but no joy as my tinkering powers and patience hit a PTR (pretty tough roadblock).

Heck, I'd pay you to get it running like a top but given the joy you get from the process, it almost doesn't seem right.

Too funny - glad you're HK's are running great. Matt

I haven't shot mine in a while. One of the key things I remember best about it was a notably slower cycle rate. And while typing this, I just remembered. It being mag picky. The Bulgarian flat sides were the best, but I also had good luck with the Asian mags.

 

[HK556WI]

Well retrodog if they are boring you.

I will send you a shipping crate. Just pack everything up and ship them up here to me.

They will have a good home. :biggrin:

 

[retrodog]

All is not lost. Since HKParts offers an SP5K FA bolt carrier for $150, I figured I'd give it a try. This would be a decent alternative to those who don't want to grind down an actual HK carrier to get it working in the SP5K, or so I thought.

Well I got the US made SP5K FA bolt carrier in on Saturday. I have been using a genuine HK bolt assembly that I bought about 8 years ago. I thought that it had a POF carrier on it but after closer examination, I believe it to be factory HK. I bought this bolt assembly from HKParts back in 08 to get a CA89K to work correctly. I ground down the necessary part of the recoil spring tube on top as to allow it to be installed in the SP5K. When the SP5K carrier arrived, I merely switched it out on the original SP5K bolt assembly that I haven’t been using since the original “new gun test”. So that is all genuine HK except for the US made carrier. Installed it all back in the gun and headed for the range. Well I couldn’t even get through one round in semi-auto. I shot the first round and instantly got a jam. It didn’t eject the spend casing and that lead to the dreaded double feed where the new round is pulled up and the combination jams the gun.

After clearing the weapon, I tried again, with the exact same result. I then stripped the gun and replaced the bolt assembly with the modified HK carrier assembly. It ran perfectly again. I’m going to put the SP5K factory group back to its original configuration and try it again in semi-auto, just to make sure everything was working correctly. Probably will try that tomorrow night. And then I’ll install the new US carrier into the HK assembly that has been working fine. I guess I might just install the new US made carrier on the old HK assembly to see if that carrier breaks the functionality of that as well. That would normally be considered the “acid test” for whether the new US carrier will work or not.

 

[F0x_hound]

There's always Hi-Point

I heard mix reviews on these ,imo... I personally wouldn't buy one .

Op con rats on your sp5k it's a KEEPER .

 

[retrodog]

I heard mix reviews on these ,imo... I personally wouldn't buy one .

.

I think he was being a bit facetious, which really surprises me since I never do that. Damn, there I go again.

I was, however, tempted to pick up a Kel-Tec Sub2000 at the local show this weekend. Just couldn't find one that takes the Glock mags. I have a bunch of G17 mags.

They had an HK51 RR there for about $27k. I was really shocked when I saw that. Kind of like seeing Bigfoot. Not sure what it was made out of though. maybe a 91.

 

[LongDuck]

Your whole "maybe I'll swap this and swap that and see if it runs" was my experience with a close friend that liked to tinker more than shoot his guns. I don't have the patience for that unless I'm really motivated, and my Michaels Machines modified SP5K bolt carrier (welded to F/A spec) being original to the gun, ran beautifully from the first magazine onward - just like I expect of all Factory German parts working in concert.

If I want to tinker, I take my Shrike to the range with a mixed bag of ammo and links, and buffer weights, and recoil springs, and lubes, and...

 

[kimberkid]

Its always great when a plan comes together and everything works ... congrats!

On that note ... maybe you or someone here can help me with a situation I've run into!

I've had a Flemming sear that I've been enjoying for several years now and have been accumulating hosts for it ... a year or so ago I got a C93Pistol and once I changed the locking piece to a 65(?)degree locking piece its been running perfectly ...

... now fast forward to about 2 weeks ago, I got an A3 collapsible stock for it ... with this stock, every few rounds (at best) it will fail to eject but still strip a new round off the mag and try to jamb them both into the chamber. I had ordered a spare ejector and I have the problem remains the same no matter what ejector I use.

It works fine with my solid stock and my early 91 stock which I removed the recoil spring/rod and modified to fit the shorter receiver ... the carrier is the full-auto buffered bolt carrier but I'm not sure if it was cut down or is factory ... it is shorter than the one on my V93/16" clone.

The glaring difference I see in the stocks is that the other stocks are flat or have the short buffer but this one has a metal nipple (for lack of a better term) it doesn't seem to have any "give" in it as the typical buffer does ... here's a pic I borrowed from HK Parts website that shows the inside of the stock and the protruding nipple that I'm talking about.

As I said, my other stocks work fine however the collapsible one has the convex butt that isn't very comfortable in full auto (at least when compared to the A3)

Has anyone else run into this problem?

Any help from the brain trust here at HKPro is appreciated!

 

[retrodog]

Its always great when a plan comes together and everything works ... congrats!

On that note ... maybe you or someone here can help me with a situation I've run into!

I've had a Flemming sear that I've been enjoying for several years now and have been accumulating hosts for it ... a year or so ago I got a C93Pistol and once I changed the locking piece to a 65(?)degree locking piece its been running perfectly ...

... now fast forward to about 2 weeks ago, I got an A3 collapsible stock for it ... with this stock, every few rounds (at best) it will fail to eject but still strip a new round off the mag and try to jamb them both into the chamber. I had ordered a spare ejector and I have the problem remains the same no matter what ejector I use.

It works fine with my solid stock and my early 91 stock which I removed the recoil spring/rod and modified to fit the shorter receiver ... the carrier is the full-auto buffered bolt carrier but I'm not sure if it was cut down or is factory ... it is shorter than the one on my V93/16" clone.

The glaring difference I see in the stocks is that the other stocks are flat or have the short buffer but this one has a metal nipple (for lack of a better term) it doesn't seem to have any "give" in it as the typical buffer does ... here's a pic I borrowed from HK Parts website that shows the inside of the stock and the protruding nipple that I'm talking about.

As I said, my other stocks work fine however the collapsible one has the convex butt that isn't very comfortable in full auto (at least when compared to the A3)

Has anyone else run into this problem?

Any help from the brain trust here at HKPro is appreciated!

Not sure if it applies, but it might help...

I got a V53P years ago to use as a sear host. It worked perfectly with the end cap that came on it. But there was no buffer of any kind in that plate, and not even a flat disc like some of them have. I tried to use a fixed stock like the standard MP5 version but it had the little plastic disk, about 1/8" thick. The V53 P had a buffered carrier with the little half moon thing sticking out the back. After a lot of trouble with trying to debug the gun, having failures to eject and locking up on me (similar to what you're describing) I decided that the little buffer plate in the stock might be redundant with the buffer on the carrier and causing enough interference to cause my problems. So I tried using a standard MP5 stock with no buffer or disc in the rear. The gun ran perfect. Others have reported not having this problem and are happy with the way that theirs runs, but I can not run like that.

If this is your problem, you basically have three options:
1. Use only stocks with no buffer to interfere with the bolt carrier's buffer
2. Remove the bolt carrier's buffer and use only buffered stocks
3. Get a new unbuffered carrier and use only buffered stocks

I do a combination of #1 and #3. I use the buffered carrier in the gun when I want to run with a fixed stock and just use the unbuffered stock. I bought a real HK53 unbuffered carrier to use with my retractable stock.

I guess you could run without a buffer too, but that might accelerate the wear and tear on the gun.

Anyway, hope that helps.

Edit to add: From the best that I could determine, the buffer in the carrier was hitting the buffer disk in the stock and causing the bolt group to short cycle (not travel far enough rearward) and thereby not engagine the ejector against the spent case adequately. The extra clearance allowed the carrier to travel enough to make the ejections reliable.

It sounds like you might have a carrier that was cut down from a 93 size to a 53 size. That would make sense for something called a 93 pistol if it had the barrel length of a 53. Post a picture of the gun if you have one.

I was just looking at the bolts at HKParts.net and you can see the difference mostly on the recoil rod tube.

 

[kwesi]

This thread brings back so many memories of the "clone blues". Wait I distinctly remember forgetting about those.