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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Well it's been a little bit since I joined this forum and started learning the in's and out's of these guns. I only really have experience in the hand gun realm and thought I would post some thoughts about what I have learned and struggled with over the years with these guns. I get PM's every now and again, and wanted to basically sum up MY opinions on some subjects.

Triggers

Quite the hot topic here on the forum, the competition field, and the gun store. From cops to competitors, you'll hear that the triggers are horrendous and that they make the gun impossible to shoot fast. I can attest to the fact that it's just not true. The triggers can run, but the key here really is training. I have found that no one really wants to admit that they don't shoot their guns much, and that they struggle. This is for a bunch of reasons, but the truth here is that those that take the diligent time to put fourth the effort in a focused training class or with other good shooters can excel at these triggers. The first place folks go wrong with the triggers I have found is comparing them to 1911 triggers. They should never be mentioned in the same breath as 1911 triggers, let alone the same conversation. The only thing they share is the fact that they cause a hammer to drop. That's it. The triggers are battle triggers that must be practiced to be run correctly. Some will say that the trigger should be better for such a great functioning hand gun. I would say that the trigger is proven to work and that HK knows this.

The trigger is something to be learned. For those that must tinker, I say go with a proven master smith of the system in Gray Guns. I've not heard of any complaints on Bruce's work, and have been continually impressed at those comments from his customers. I've never had a trigger worked on, but if I was going to, it would head to Gray Guns.

DA/SA is the gold standard of HK guns, they are OEM for most guns that folks buy. However, LEM is gaining a lot of traction and is another question here on the forum. The LEM is what I use on my guns because I find it faster than the DA/SA. I shot that platform for eight years, and while I am competent with it, I've been nothing but impressed with the LEM system. For folks that get hung up on not being able to shoot DA/SA, I say if you switch to LEM it will be easier, but it has it's own set of challenges. The trigger requires rhythmic pulls to shoot at speed. The long first stage transitioning into the heavier part of the second stage throws a lot of folks off. There are two schools of thoughts on the way to shoot them LEM; stage the trigger, and pull through. I say use both. If I am hosing on a stage and have a lot of room to be sloppy but need to run fast I pull right through and then to the reset. If the target is a ways out, or is partially covered by no shoots, I stage the hell out of that trigger and focus on the sights while pulling the trigger back in a nice consistent way. There is nothing wrong with having more than one tool in your tool bag, and using them at different points. I don't like folks that work in absolutes, they are too limiting and cause you to stop growing as a shooter. Besides that, you have to find out what is going to work for you. There is no one on the interwebs that knows how your finger works the trigger better than you. Between you and your instructor(s), you must figure out a way to run your guns. That is a personal thing.

I am a fan of consistency in my triggers. I don't like picking up something and running thousands of rounds through it, and then switching to something else for defense use. I think it's a disservice. The subconscious knows one way to run that gun, and training it is key.

Price

I get the question constantly, are HK's worth their price?!? I say yes and no. It all depends on what you value, and what you want out of your gun. If you want a gun that will shoot at the range once and then sit in the safe, then no seriously HK's are not worth the money. Most people buy a gun because they get excited about them for one reason or another, shoot it once and put that baby away. That is the life most guns are relegated to. You will never see the value in HK if you do this, and therefore the guns are not worth the money. There are plenty of other guns that you can get cheaper that will fit this bill. The value comes out when you run the hell out of the gun, and it keeps on preforming for you. That's where the HK's shine, and that's where you get the money out of your gun. I'm not saying that other guns won't do this for you, but on the production side of the house, HK is the king of this.

Another thing that I have heard constantly here is: "how come my gun $900 rattles", or "for $900 bucks you think they would have done _______". There are two things here. One, is that all cost are relative, and $900 only seams expensive when you put them in the same class as of other handguns that are polymer. The other thing is some folks feel really entitled when they spend the cash for an HK handgun and get really worked up when there is polymer flashing on the rails, or their trigger has some left over polymer on it. Your money was spent on a gun that has been tested to death, and was designed correctly before getting into your hands. The money you spent is to get a gun that will fire all the time if you maintain it, and a gun that will give you years of service. The gun will rattle, it will have minor imperfections if used, and it will wear with time. These are facts that must be accepted, and once they are you will be much happier with your gun. There are a lot of snarky comments made about the gun being admired my their owners, instead of shot. I get it, it's pricey and you want to have pride in ownership of your HK. From my perspective, I get the most pride in ownership from knowing that my pistol is engineered well, and through running it to death I know it works.

HK's are machines, and machines will break if used enough. This is a fact for any mechanical item. Keep it in mind, and know what your parts life cycles and replace them before they hit that end of life point. This is just good practice regardless of the price point of the machine.

USP v P Series

There are purist that think the USP is the end all be all of the HK series, and those that like the feel and updates of the P series (HK45/C included in the P series for my purposes). They are both outstanding. However, I think HK is more marketable to the masses by taking into account that a 2X4 is not what most folks want out of a pistol grip. For some it works great, and others never make it past the handshake at the gun store. There is no way to convert someone away from their hand hugging XDM, or M&P when your product feels like it was designed for a pro basket ball player. I'm not knocking the USP grip for me, because I loved it. I can also palm a basket ball with out issue, and open my own pickle jars with out a tool.

The P series answers the frequently asked question of ergonomics. The interchangeable back straps and side panels of the P30 are genius. The appeal to those that want the gun to feel like a glove was an amazing break through for the engineering crew at HK. I can let women, small handed men and juniors shoot the gun without issues. This gets folks into the platform. This allows the gun to walk out of the gun store and get used, because more folks enjoy shooting them. The HK45 and 45C are also outstanding. The two rounds sacrificed from the USP45 were well worth it. The trade off is an amazing feel in the hand that allows for faster shooting, and more enjoyable positive feel on the gun. I think they hit it out of the park with these guns and am so happy they developed the series.

Customer Service

I know of folks in the gun, LE, and competition community that cannot stand HK because of the perception of their horrid customer service. I've dealt with the folks in Columbus so many times that some of them know my voice. From the beginning, they have been excellent to me. The guys know their product. That's seriously half the battle these days. I once called up a company three different times and asked about a failure I was getting with a gun. I got three different responses, and could hear the pages being flipped and keys being hit to look up my answer. HK customer service reps don't do that. They know their stuff, and will help you understand too. Besides their knowledge, they are reasonable. Honestly goes a long way, and they will help you out of your mistake if you are forthcoming. I think they get tired of getting pistols in where the owner swears there was no table top gun smithing, but if you're honest you'll get your gun fixed. There maybe a charge for what you did, but usually it can be fixed.

Be straight with them, and don't call to BS and talk guns, and you'll be fine.

Ammo

There is so much debate about ammo, it can get confusing for the HK novice. It cracks me up to hear "I spent $900 on this gun, it better be able to shoot Tula!". Again, the sense of entitlement because you spent some money. The gun has no idea how much it cost, it just knows how it was engineered. Shooting quality brass cased ammo is a small price to pay so that your gun can function the way it was designed. It's still a gun, it's not an indestructible tool. I reload now, and get a lot of pleasure from shooting my own ammo and getting great results; but before this I bought countless rounds of good old US made ammo in brass cases.

Training

You would not get into an airplane and read the pilot operating handbook and expect to be a great pilot, or for that matter an alive pilot. Why folks with no experience get a gun and go to the range expecting to be a great shooter is confusing to me. I cannot stress how important it is to drive these guns, and do so safely and competently. HK's are not the easiest guns to shoot, that's a fact for everyone I have introduced to them. Getting training from someone that is well versed in the gun is critical. If you go to your average CCW class, you'll hear a lot of anti HK rhetoric. I have found this to be because a lot of the instructors don't know how to drive the gun. Since they are "instructors", something must be wrong with the gun. Sometimes it's important to turn the funnel around and take a look in the mirror. Finding an instructor that can use the HK well is critical to learning to use the HK yourself.

Other guns

I will be the first to tell you that HK's are excellent. It does not mean that other guns are inferior, or don't excel past the HK is different ways. I met a gentleman that owns a major knife making company that was asked what is the best knife you make? His answer was "they're all good just different". The saying partially holds true for guns. Quality guns are all good just different. Different applications, different strengths and weakness. I think for a production handgun, HK is the gnats ass. However, other guns run too. There is a trap to get sucked into of HK snobbery. I have been guilty of this at times. However, I know that there is nothing like a 1911 that runs well; there is nothing wrong with that at all! I am actually having a couple of custom beauties built (2011 style guns, not 1911's), for competition and carry. The guns are dead reliable, and are much faster for me than the HK platform. For this to happen however, they are much more expensive, but worth it. I think it's important to understand that other guns are reliable, and are of great design too.

Conclusion

If you made it this far, I commend your attention span. I hope that the readers of this realize that HK's are great guns, but that they have a learning curve. They are not the easiest guns to master, and they take devotion. I hope you shoot safely and well, and drive constantly to push yourself with your gun to excel.

These are simply my opinions and thoughts, and they may be completely wrong for your needs. Go figure out what works for you and your needs. I hope it was helpful and contributed to the wonderful reference forum this place is.

Thanks for reading.
 

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Lots to read there. I made it through, though I'm sure I missed something along the way. Nice conclusions after spending some time here with our beloved forums and weapons.
 

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Nice summary. This forum exposes me to a lot of info...but definitely on me to put it into practice.
Keep up the shooting, and your post activity. ;)
 

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Good post. I enjoyed reading that.
 

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summed it up perfectly! great read apollo. my 3 year is here at the end of the month, i'm not even gonna try to follow this act.

cheers..
 

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Being new to this forum and HK's, this is an excellent intro for me. Thanks a million!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 

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Apollo,
Thank you so much for sharing your conclusions with us. Your a tremendous help to us all. Please keep up the excellent posts!
 

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Well said. Built to work, with the user in trained control, without the latest rage in faddery. Same reasons I like Leica cameras and lenses.
 

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.....The trigger is something to be learned......

.....The subconscious knows one way to run that gun, and training it is key.....

.....I'm not saying that other guns won't do this for you, but on the production side of the house, HK is the king of this.....

.....I get the most pride in ownership from knowing that my pistol is engineered well, and through running it to death I know it works.....

.....I met a gentleman that owns a major knife making company that was asked what is the best knife you make? His answer was "they're all good just different".....
I liked these thoughts the best.
 
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