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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Good hell men! All this brilliant engineering, and THIS is what they came up with for the trigger return?? :D

I'm changing an LEM to a V1/V3, and it had the heavy LEM TRS in it. Pulled that, and have now spent my evening trying to get the standard TRS in.
It's the bane of my existence. I've been working on SIGs for years, but this thing has me banging my head.

Yes, I've read all 300 threads dealing with this issue, along with 18 pictorial guides, and no dice. What a PIA!

Had to vent. ;)
 

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Yes, the trigger return spring is no fun without the TRS pliers... yep, there is a specific type of plier for this, shared with the locking lever springs in the G36 and UMP as those are almost as much a PIA.
 

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A pair of thin-jawed needle nose pliers (the small hobby type) will make this job a lot easier. I found a pair at Lowe's.

Good luck!
 

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After several hours, yes hours, trying to get the TRS in my USP when converting it to LEM/Match, any video I would have made of the process would have had to have been "R" rated. Having no vice or special pliers made it even more fun. I could get the two ends of the spring where they needed to be, but trying to keep one or both there while pushing on the TRS to get the hammer axle through the coil was proving impossible.

One or the other end would move out of position when I get the axle through, which meant I had no "spring" action. Many attempts involved hunting it down after it went zinging across the kitchen. The wife was away. The trigger kept moving on me too, which didn't help.

In the end, some sandwich toothpicks, those are the real thick ones they stick in your BLT, came to the rescue. I wedged one under the trigger to keep it forward, which freed up a couple of my fingers. Then, after carefully placing the TRS how it needed to go, I used another toothpick wedged behind the TRS between it and the frame, the frame was pointed towards me, to move the TRS down and forward so the hammer axle would go through.

I did this by simply pushing the toothpick down, using it's wedge shape to apply the tension that I couldn't do with the needle nose pliers I had. Don't laugh, cause when I did this, everything went together quicker and slicker than snot.
 

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This isn't as hard as most make it out to be. Make sure your gun is locked down with a vise or heavy books or whatever will just keep your gun from falling over or moving. Have the gun pointing with the barrel away from you. Good lighting and the right tools are key... (1 punch, long needle nose pliers, paper towels/napkins). Take a look at the TRS and its positioning. Take a picture to remember how the legs are seated. Drive the punch through and get the trigger axel out (right to left). Pull the punch back just enough to get the old TRS out. WARNING ... Old TRS will fly out so be careful. Next, push the trigger all the way forward and stuff paper towels or napkins behind it to keep it in the forward position. Now take the new TRS and just place it in there with the pliers with the legs in the right position. You won't get it at first but just aim for the legs to be positioned in the approximate position. No need for perfection because adjustments will need to be made with the pliers and a lot of patience. Once the legs are positioned correctly you will need to push down with a lot of force to get it in there enough to push the punch back in and drive it through. Not easy but once again be patient and pay attention to the details. I suggest having the right hand hold the punch in place and use the left hand to position and fiddle with the TRS. After the TRS is in the hole (no jokes please) use the pliers to push down (left hand again). Now that you have the TRS locked in place with the punch you are almost done. Slowly pull the punch out from the right side and push the trigger axel through at the same time (left to right) and voila... YOU DID IT! Get the paper towel out from behind the trigger and you are done.

Just wrote these off the top of my head so if I missed anything small please don't kill me. Just try and try until you do it because this "job" isn't a PITA that it's made out to be. It's nice to be able to test out the feel of the trigger when swapping out all 3 TRSs to see what fits you best. Good luck and if you need more help PM me and I'll be glad to walk you through this again.
 

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palutz59 is correct about a long punch of the right diameter. I think this job would be impossible without one and I should have mentioned it earlier.
 

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This isn't as hard as most make it out to be. Make sure your gun is locked down with a vise or heavy books or whatever will just keep your gun from falling over or moving. Have good lighting and have the right tools (1 punch, long needle nose pliers, napkins). Take a look at the TRS and it's positioning. Take a picture to remember how the legs are seated. Drive the punch through and get the trigger axel out (right to left). Pull the punch back just enough to get the old TRS out. WARNING ... Old TRS will fly out so be careful. Next, push the trigger all the way forward and stuff a big paper towel or napkins behind it to keep it in the forward position. Now take the new TRS and just place it in there with the pliers with the legs in the right position. You won't get it at first but just aim for the legs to be positioned in the approximate position. No need for perfection because adjustments will need to be made with some patience. Once the legs are positioned correctly you will need to push down with a lot of force to get it in there enough to push the punch back in and drive it through. Not easy but once again be patient and pay attention to the details. Now that you have the TRS locked in place with the punch you are almost done. Slowly pull the punch out from the right side and push the trigger axel through at the same time (left to right) and voila... YOU DID IT! Get the paper towel out from behind the trigger and you are done.

Just wrote these off the top of my head do if I missed anything small please don't kill me. Just try and try until you do it because this "job" isn't the PITA that there talk about. It's nice to be able to test out the feel of a trigger when swapping out all 3 TRSs to see what fits you best. Good luck and if you need more help PM me and I'll be glad to walk you through this again.
At the risk of getting lynched, this is exactly how I do mine except I put a piece of tape around the trigger to keep it forward instead of using napkins. I changed my P30 twice yesterday trying the Todd Green Special. Didn't care for it so I changed it back to V1. I can now change the TRS in about the same time as it takes to field strip it and get to the TRS.

Those of you trying this without a vise is insane. And I hold an X300 in my mouth so I can see down into what I'm doing. There is very little tension on the TRS. Actually my stock V2 TRS in my P30 just lays in the slot. When I pull my punch back out it just lays there, have to go in after it with the needle nose to get it out.

If anyone needing one swapped is in the East Tennessee area, I would be more than happy to swap it out.
 

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palutz59 is correct about a long punch of the right diameter. I think this job would be impossible without one and I should have mentioned it earlier.
Something I found that works well as my 1/16 punch isn't really as long as I would like it to be, once you have knocked the trigger axel pin out most of the way with the punch, use an air needle (like for pumping up basketballs) to finish pushing it out. Gives you a lot more area to work with and is the same diameter as the punch.
 

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At the risk of getting lynched, this is exactly how I do mine except I put a piece of tape around the trigger to keep it forward instead of using napkins. I changed my P30 twice yesterday trying the Todd Green Special. Didn't care for it so I changed it back to V1. I can now change the TRS in about the same time as it takes to field strip it and get to the TRS.

Those of you trying this without a vise is insane. And I hold an X300 in my mouth so I can see down into what I'm doing. There is very little tension on the TRS. Actually my stock V2 TRS in my P30 just lays in the slot. When I pull my punch back out it just lays there, have to go in after it with the needle nose to get it out.

If anyone needing one swapped is in the East Tennessee area, I would be more than happy to swap it out.
After having done it without one, I agree! I wish the TRS recommended by Travis at HK would lay there in place, but it won't as the relative angle between the two ends is much greater than my stock TRS and the ones that came with the LEM kit. I realized after comparing them side to side that that was one reason I was having such difficulty. I could get the stock TRS back in much more easily.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
Thank you to everyone for the replies.

I've got a conex full of tools, specifically for armory stuff, but it seems like I may need to add a couple more to get this little bastard to cooperate. I'm obsessive, so I'm sure I'll get it eventually. I've got quite a few SIG specific tools, with notched flatheads etc., so I'll see if I can make any headway running through all those. Sounds like I need some smaller needle nose pliers though.

The main issue right now, is the alignment of the spring before depressing it into position. It's a brand new part, but with the orientation of the legs, when I settle it down in, the forward facing leg is sitting on the correct frame ledge, but the other leg is still just as much forward as it is down, so even depressing it when lowering it down into position correctly won't allow it to get behind the trigger where it needs to be. It's hitting on top of the trigger with some manipulation, or forward through the opening on the underside when simply pushed down.

I tried aligning the trigger as up and forward as possible, trying the tape method and a small paper clip, as well as a 1/16th punch.....this gave me a bit of play with the trigger, but the spring leg that needs to go behind the trigger can't clear it to get behind. I tried manually manipulating the leg by itself. It sticks out through the opening, and up against the frame on the underside, in front of the trigger when depressed down, and won't slip behind the trigger.

Does the spring itself need to be worked in at all? As far as loosening it up a little so the legs are splayed out wider? Or is it simply me not knowing what the hell I'm doing? :)

 

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I can't help, but I found the P2000SK to be impossible for me (no vice).

I had been lulled into complacency with my HK45C (took 5 minutes, musta been beginners luck). P30 took 30 minutes. Two multi hour attempts with the SK (light spring install) were unsuccessful, but I was able to get the heavy spring back in before shipping it to GGI for RRCDP and light spring install.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I just dropped the heavy TRS back in for the hell of it, and it went right into position. Had it installed in about 2 minutes with a little fuss lining up the trigger pin.

^*%#%^*#()&#$()&^#$&)
 

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If I were really smart I would take some videos or pictures......but I'm not. So I will try to explain it.

I grab the TRS from directly above the spring. What I concentrate on is the leg that goes behind the trigger. Now I know the other leg is facing downward and thats allright. As I am pressing the spring back into the frame, the other leg will hit first. I continue to push the spring down as far as I can go with it. You do have to have a good grip on the spring or it will rotate up and your trigger leg will be in front of the trigger and not behind it. At first I was afraid I would mash the spring with the pliers, but it's a lot stouter than it looks.

Once I have it down as far as I can get it, I start working my needle (or punch) back into the spring, sometimes only getting one coil to hook. Once you have the one coil you are there. At that point I take a small scredriver and push the spring on down allowing me to push my needle all the way through.

I then push the needle out from the other side using my trigger axel pin. When it's all the way in, give it a tap with the punch, thank God, go on about your day.

Just for reference in case you missed it earlier, I use an air needle such as for pumping up a basketball because my 1/16 punch doesn't really have a long enough point for my liking. So I knock the trigger axel out about half way with the punch and then use the air needle to push it the rest of the way out. When you pull it back through to remove the spring, only pull it back far enough to get the spring out and leave it there. I have had a couple instances while putting a TRS in where I got it close and was just able to bend my wrist downward and push it through with the palm of my hand.
 

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I'm telling y'all. Repeat after me. Vise. Vise. Vise. It's almost impossible without one.
That too! :wink:

I have an old PanaVise that has been serving me well for decades now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I bought the longest, thinnest, needle nose pliers I could find, and used everything that's been suggested.

I saw this photo on here of someone who had modded their pliers, and even with this, I can't see how it would work, as there just isn't enough room down in there to get the pliers down far enough. I've been back and forth haggling with this thing all day. F**k sake! I'm convinced it's near on impossible.....at least with the spring I have and the position of the legs. I can get the heavy TRS in and out over and over without a hitch.

I'll just buy 5 of every HK pistol for back-ups, and stick to being a SIG armorer.




 

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Those pliers are too thick, you need flat nose like this...
(OEM'd by Knipex for HK)

(click to enlarge)

Eyebrow Eyelash
 
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