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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Trying to decide between an UMP or MP5 clone from either HDPS or Dakota Tactical. Advantages and disadvantages to each? Was the UMP designed to replace the MP5? Is the UMP in any way more reliable than the MP5?


Looks like I would have to purchase a USC and send it off to get it converted. With the MP5 clone I would just purchase this from Dakota Tactical as a pistol. Is my information correct? I've been reading a TON trying to school myself.

In order to SBR the USC/UMP conversion...I would just swap out the 16" barrel that the USC comes with for an 8" barrel?


And to SBR the MP5 clone.....just add a stock kit?

Lastly, if I do decide to go with the USC/UMP conversion...would there be a way to also convert it from .45 ACP to 9mm?
 

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The mp5 will be much cheaper to shoot. UMP mags are out of control expensive right now as well.

The mp5 is so much smoother to shoot, plus if you come into some cash.....sear ready.

Get both is the logical answer though.
 

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I don't think it was intended to replace fully the MP5 but a lower cost alternative. It is a totally different operating mechanism. As such, the delayed rolled lock mech is more controllable than the straight blowback design. The UMP is more reliable due to less moving parts but MP's are very reliable. You can get an already converted USC from Ed for more than the Dakota gun but if you are like the rest of us and your wallet allows, you will want both. They are like Lays potato chips,"no one can have just one".


Oh yeah, I forgot the sear part!
 

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I have various MP5 clones and I have an UMP clone. MP5 is smooth with little kick. I love shooting the UMP through the Osprey Silencer though. It would be tough to pick which one to give up.
 

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You don't 'need' to send the UMP off to get converted.
If you get a grey one you can dye it yourself.
You can either do the very slight modifications to the receiver (except for the
vents which anyone with a mill can do) yourself.
You can buy the parts almost anywhere.
You can swap out the lower parts yourself with info you can find here.

Yes, it's a lot of work. Yes, for some it is worth the money HDPS charges to do it.
But you don't 'have to' send it out to be converted (no disrespect meant towards
Ed at HDPS he does a great job and charges a very reasonable price for his services
and parts).
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I don't think it was intended to replace fully the MP5 but a lower cost alternative. It is a totally different operating mechanism. As such, the delayed rolled lock mech is more controllable than the straight blowback design. The UMP is more reliable due to less moving parts but MP's are very reliable. You can get an already converted USC from Ed for more than the Dakota gun but if you are like the rest of us and your wallet allows, you will want both. They are like Lays potato chips,"no one can have just one".


Oh yeah, I forgot the sear part!
Wish I could afford both. I don't see a $15K+ sear in my future. I noticed the option of a Navy or FBI lower receiver. The Navy had "Safe, Semi, FULL"....what happen if I went with the Navy version, but only kept the UMP semi? If I moved the selector to "Full" would it even fire? Just curious.

Ed at HDPS sells a USC that is already converted? I didn't see it on the website. That would be ideal.
 

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You don't 'need' to send the UMP off to get converted.
So true, so true! I did both of mine myself about a year ago but I looked around for a long time to find good prices and both conversions came to around $2100 per gun minus the 2 stamps. It is really 3 as one is also a 9mm. So caliber easy conversion is also a plus for this platform.
 

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If I moved the selector to "Full" would it even fire? Just curious.

If you do not switch over the guts, on FA the hammer will fall but you will have to seperate the upper/lower to reset the hammer. Semi would be semi. Lower gut swap out, the selector will not swing to that position.

Ed at HDPS sells a USC that is already converted? I didn't see it on the website. That would be ideal.
I think you have to look under the SBR section
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I think you have to look under the SBR section
Found it. Thanks.

$3,685 seems pretty steep. I found a new USC for $1,200. I wonder if it would be cheaper for me to purchase that and have it converted or spend the $3,685?

The one that Ed is selling is a Navy lower....are the guts swapped out on his....making it not possible to switch the selector to "Full"?
 

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In the conversions, the UMP lower usually has the USC semi fire control parts installed. The USC selector physically only goes to two positions, safe and semi, regardless of what the pictograms on the outside of the lower say.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
In the conversions, the UMP lower usually has the USC semi fire control parts installed. The USC selector physically only goes to two positions, safe and semi, regardless of what the pictograms on the outside of the lower say.
Thanks for the clarification. I guess the full auto pictogram just adds a coolness factor. I'm fine with that.
 

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Thanks for the clarification. I guess the full auto pictogram just adds a coolness factor. I'm fine with that.
It's all in the "notched disk". The part that controls the detents on a USC/UMP pack isn't the selector, it's a round disk with detent notches in it that will fit in either (except the burst packs, the grip housings are different, so the internal parts are as well) and controls which positions the selector can move to. I do them both ways depending on what people want - some want only safe and semi, some want all the positions. But they still shoot in semi mode only, of course.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I found out today that the length from the trigger to the end of the folding factory Hk buttstock on the UMP is 15 inches. This is waaaay too long for my reach. For comparison, the stock on my AR is only 13.5 inches when FULLY extended. If you're 6' 3" I'm sure it works fine.

This might be a deal breaker. Ed at HDPS has an adjustable AR stock for the UMP that folds to the left rather than the right. I'm sure that would work, but it just doesn't look as nice as the factory Hk stock.
 

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There are short LoP stocks out there but they are RARE. I can't even remember who makes them off the top of my head, the company who makes the MP9 I think.. B&T? For their short LoP MP5 stock that looks like a UMP stock, I think it fits without modification.
 

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I'm not that tall and mine fits fine. I don't think I have the short one:


Edit:
Here is a pic I have of it next to my AR I can take one with the stock extended tommorow if you want. My brother owns a Dakota and this Ump was built by Ed. You can't go wrong with either one. Whatever you pick you most likely will buy the other one down the road. If you ever plan on a sear I would go with the Dakota.


Now that I think of it I could get you a pic with the UMP, AR, and a Dakota with an A2 stock or a choate folding stock to give you an idea of size.

I found out today that the length from the trigger to the end of the folding factory Hk buttstock on the UMP is 15 inches. This is waaaay too long for my reach. For comparison, the stock on my AR is only 13.5 inches when FULLY extended. If you're 6' 3" I'm sure it works fine.

This might be a deal breaker. Ed at HDPS has an adjustable AR stock for the UMP that folds to the left rather than the right. I'm sure that would work, but it just doesn't look as nice as the factory Hk stock.
 

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I don't think you need to be 6'3 for the UMP to fit. I'm 6'2 and it's perfect, lol.

I'd go with the UMP purely for the reduced weight and caliber options.
 

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if you can find one, the B&T short LOP stock drops right on the HDPS block. I also found that the factory UMP stock was too long.

after that, the LOP is the same as an mp5

 
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