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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Just finished a two hour long search marathon that doesn't come up with anything specifcally addressing what I am looking for. Search was NOT my friend, coming up with meandering, hi-jacked threads, here and elsewhere.

* I have a TBostic UMP graft coversion, and looking at either the Aimpoint T1 or Zeiss Z-point ONLY- I am NOT considering ANY other optics (trying to avoid another hijacked thread here).

* I am NOT willing to modify the front UMP sight (trying to avoid another hijacked thread here).

* I found SOME indications as to whether either optic co-witnesses.

* I found SOME indication that the Zeiss Z-Point co-witnesses without any other mount.

Can someone with DIRECT knowledge of either optic on the UMP platform lend some advice as to whether the AimPoint T1 or the Zeiss Z-Point optics co-witness, AND what mount combination they had to use? Also, pics would be throughly appreciated.

Thanks!

B.
 

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T1 will cowitness with the factory aim point mount. Not sure if the larue mount will force it higher
Good combo though the front hood kinda gets irritating
 

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The Aimpoint will co-witness, depending on what mount you get, and what RAIL you get. The plastic rail I had originally had a great co-witness, the HERA Arms rail I have no will not. With the lower rail I had, it was a lower 3rd co-witness with the factory Aimpoint mount. The Zeiss Z-point is a little lower I believe, IIRC its more like a 5/8ths co-witness.

Without cutting the front sight hood, you are looking at having a very obstructed view, even HK figured this out with the 416 sights. If you are unwilling to do this, the BEST option is to get a riser so that your red-dot sight is higher than the iron sights and you wont notice it. The HK416 height LaRue aimpoint micro QR mount would probably be perfect for this.

This is what the co-witness looks like with the lower rail (plastic, and unknown manufacture. I was told it was factory HK but have been told HK never made poly rails for the UMP or USC) I had and the front sight cutout. As you can see the front sight hood would sit exactly in the middle of your sight. The Z-point may be slightly better for this, although it depends on how low the rail you have sits. If you have a nice low rail you may even get a close-to absolute co-witness and can flip the rear sight into the open sight.










Although personally of your options I would go with the higher mount to get the irons right out of your view. The Aimpoint micro's are great sights but don't leave a lot of room if you have fixed sights in the view. Even with the special made front sight I have (without a hood at all) I have the ADM-low QR mount for my Micro, just so the view is nice and open in it, I found too much clutter when it was low enough to co-witness.
 

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Yep,
Just an FYI, my experiences were with the HDPS rails, which I believe are a little fat and high. T1 will cowitness with factory mount but cluttered. An insight MRDS with any mount (tried like three) will not cowitness, sits too damn high.
 

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The Zeiss is terrible on the UMP, I tried one and promptly sold it (I used a standard HK rail). I tried to find the old post all about this but could not. Some of the old archives might not have made it over, bummer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
What is with using a Larue LT660 or LT660HK? Does it raise it totally above the shrouded front blade of the UMP, or does it still partially view the shroud? How does it zero?- will allow the T-1 to be adjusted down enough?
 

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What is with using a Larue LT660 or LT660HK? Does it raise it totally above the shrouded front blade of the UMP, or does it still partially view the shroud? How does it zero?- will allow the T-1 to be adjusted down enough?
The 660HK raises it about 1/2" above the LOW mount (661 - which is the same height as the American Defense one) and with the pictures I posted would raise it enough to clear the front hood (it may be barely visible at the bottom of the sight). FYI I do not have a LaRue 660HK or 661 to measure it at all or test it directly.

The good thing is, you can always buy the Aimpoint Micro and see how you like it looking through the sights, then if you find it too cluttered you can always get the LaRue mount later on.
 

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That was my exact process. I have an Aimpoint Micro T1 with the QD base and I found it too cluttered without moding the front sight hood. But I did not want to mod the front sight so I am going to buy the LOW spacer to get the height to the 416/Larue 660HK height.

I am pretty sure this is what would work for my needs, and even the needs of the OP. But if anyone already has photos of the setup already, it would be awesome to see it for our information.
 
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