[khanda]

I have a dilemma, and I think I have a solution for this dilemma, but first I need to run the idea by those in the know before I make this investment.

DILEMMA:

As a 3-Gun match competitor, I want to stay in the Tactical Iron Sight division. This means that I cannot use any optical sight (red dot, scope, magnifier, etc.)

I've been rising through the ranks at the local matches with just my MR556 rifle, an extended M27 rail, the stock MR556 diopter sight and the standard front sight. However, I have come across a problem with this setup that I believe really needs to be addressed.

My current zero for setting '2' on the diopter rear sight is at 50 yds. This makes things very easy for me to shoot from 25 yds. - 250 yds. All I have to do is place my front sight post on an exact point on my intended target and I pretty much guarantee myself a successful hit within a two inch diameter circle. From 250 yds - 350 yds, I turn the knob up to '3' and I will get hits on steel at those ranges. It's beautiful. I haven't shot at steel past 350 yet so I'm not sure how "automatic" moving up to setting '4' is when shooting targets at those ranges. Soon I'll take the rifle to a longer range and eventually find out.

But anyway, my problem occurs when I shoot at targets WITHIN 25 yds. With my current zero at 50 yds. I find that I have to start aiming 2 - 3 inches high to place shots precisely where I want them, and this means that I have to COVER my point of intended aim with my front sight post when shooting it. This slows me down on stages because I have to keep telling myself "Aim high! Aim high! Aim high!" at close ranges.

At the same time, I also have a voice in my head that says "Don't aim too high and miss the target! Don't aim too high and miss the target!"

This internal dialog that I have every time I shoot short range targets drives me nuts and is extremely annoying. If I used a red dot or scope, I would be able to quickly see how high over point of aim I were shooting, because I would be looking at an illuminated dot above my point of aim, instead of a front sight post that COVERS my point of aim. However, this would be less than ideal since it would disqualify me from the tactical iron sight division.

PROPOSED SOLUTION:

To solve this problem, I hypothesize that if I were to install the HK416 rear flip up sight by placing it directly in front of my diopter sight, then I would have a "new zero" at closer ranges when using the flip up sight. At ranges closer than 25 yds, I would quickly deploy the flip up sight, or lower it when shooting at targets further away. This flip-up sight would heighten my point of aim with the standard front sight, and allow me to more easily predict shot placement on closer targets. Since the flip-up sight was designed to be used with a 33mm height flip-up front sight, I wouldn't have to adjust elevation hardly at all to be dead on with close-range targets.

What do you think of my idea? For those who have experience with the HK flip-up rear sight, will this setup perform as I hope it will? Also, is there a button on the sight that flips it up, like with the Magpul MBUS rear sight?

Thanks for your help, suggestions and thoughts!

 

[AGR416]

You have to manually flip it up.

I would say train so you know your holds from 25 and in. Height over bore will be an issue no matter what.

I don't know what the accuracy requirements are for the matches you participate in, but will the set-up you are running now cause you to be deducted points or have time added? Or something like that?

 

[khanda]

The setup I have now will only cause a deduction in points or add time if I miss the target or "Fail to Neutralize" the target, which means that I did not accurately place my shots in the proper target zones (head/center mass areas).

I need to make these shots as quickly as possible and the internal dialog that I have when I do not have a clear "fire-and-forget" sight picture is definitely slowing me down by a few seconds on each match stage when shooting at close targets.

 

[pb_removed]

I'm not a 3-gunner, but I had the close-quarter hold issue once myself. If you choose to go that route (which I would recommend in the practical/tactical arena), I practiced by using reference points on my target so at worst, I would hit slightly low and never miss high. It's a very trainable issue, and the speed will come with time.

But in the end, it's your game and your call. It is my opinion that this is where competition can do a disservice to a shooter by allowing/encouraging them to use a "band-aid" in extra equipment or impractical tactics. Again, i'm not picking on the op, just my perspective.

 

[Defaultmp3]

Since this is just for fun and games and not for actual defensive shooting, why don't you try installing a set of offset BUIS, e.g., SureFire Rapid Transition Sights | Iron Sights.

 

[Grumpy]

Gotta agree with pointblank on this one.

Learn your holdovers and don't get too caught up in the gamers mindset. It will do you a disservice in the real world.

p.s. I have shot three gun in the past so I know it can be done and fairly quickly as well with enough practice.

 

[forFREEDOM]

dcdreamboat, I had the same issues a couple times. One stage had three targets at 25, then 50 and then 3 more at 100. I haven't had to shoot a stage past 100 yet so I leave my diopter at 2. I've been practicing holds on 25 yrd ranges. Like Pointblank did, I just got used to reference points on my targets. Sometimes I just shoot white sheets with one round. That round becomes my bullseye and I try to gauge my hold for followup shots. But yeah, when the post is covering your target, it's not always precise.

I never though of trying duel irons, but it sounds like a good idea if it doesn't break any rules. Instead, I was thinking of modding my front sight. One idea was to shave the tip into a slight triangle and paint the triangle area florescent orange. I would figure this out by placing tape just slightly under the tip of the front post and shoot groups at 25 and adjust the tape till I had groups perfectly on the bullseye. From that point I would file my front sight's tip into a triangle for that Trijicon recticle feel. The very tip will be my zero/vert center. And the base would be my horizontal center at 25. What do you think? I didn't want to try it until I got another replacement post.

 

[khanda]

dcdreamboat, I had the same issues a couple times. One stage had three targets at 25, then 50 and then 3 more at 100. I haven't had to shoot a stage past 100 yet so I leave my diopter at 2. I've been practicing holds on 25 yrd ranges. Like Pointblank did, I just got used to reference points on my targets. Sometimes I just shoot white sheets with one round. That round becomes my bullseye and I try to gauge my hold for followup shots. But yeah, when the post is covering your target, it's not always precise.

I never though of trying duel irons, but it sounds like a good idea if it doesn't break any rules. Instead, I was thinking of modding my front sight. One idea was to shave the tip into a slight triangle and paint the triangle area florescent orange. I would figure this out by placing tape just slightly under the tip of the front post and shoot groups at 25 and adjust the tape till I had groups perfectly on the bullseye. From that point I would file my front sight's tip into a triangle for that Trijicon recticle feel. The very tip will be my zero/vert center. And the base would be my horizontal center at 25. What do you think? I didn't want to try it until I got another replacement post.

I'm not so sure about the filing down into a triangle, but your tape idea is AWESOME. I'm going to try that. Then I will be able to cover the target area with a white box and know that if the bottom of the tape is above the target at 25-, then I'm too high and if the bottom of the tape is below the target at 25-, then I'm too low. BRILLIANT!

Thanks!