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Discussion Starter #1
HK USPc .45 vs. HK45c
Would somebody please try to convince me to consider an HK45c for my next pistol.

I own a USP .45 full size and have put a couple thousand rounds through it without a SINGLE issue ever. I also own a P30L 9mm V3 and have had quite a few problems with FTEs and a whole lot of stovepipes from a variety of factory ammunition (PMC bronze, WWB, to name a couple). Has anyone else had problems with their P30s? I haven't seen anything on the forums but positive things being said about the P30s.



I want to get something a bit more compact for my next HK, and pretty much have made up my mind that I want it to be chambered in .45. That being said, my choices are really between the USPc .45 and the HK45c. I am really leaning toward the USPc because of my experiences with my USP full size. The thing has been flawless and as we all know, USPs are so damn cool. I got to check out an HK45c at the local dealer the other day, and was impressed by the trigger, much more than my P30L anyways. I also liked the slimmer profile and greater ability to conceal if carried. However, I am not impressed by the O-ring or the almost $300 price difference. I am not too partial to the grip on the HK45c either. If it was a P30 grip, I'd be sold.

Does anyone have a good reason for me to spend the extra money and get the HK45c when a USPc .45 is arguably just as nice of a pistol with a longer track record of reliability? or is it 6 of one and a half dozen of the other?

Thanks

-Also, this is my first post on this forum. My apologies if this has been discussed previously and I just couldn't find it.-
 

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If you need convinced to buy a HK45c even after you spent time with it then I'd say the HK45c isn't what you really want and I would get the USP45c.
 

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Darebear nailed it I think. If you're happy with the USP type ergo's and the HK45c didn't "speak" to you, I would just go with the USPc 45 and not look back. How many rounds does your P30 have down the pipe? It's my understanding that particular gun often does better during break in with hotter 124gr ammo. Some have reported issues during break in using 115gr ammo.

Welcome to the forum and nice pic!
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Darebear nailed it I think. If you're happy with the USP type ergo's and the HK45c didn't "speak" to you, I would just go with the USPc 45 and not look back. How many rounds does your P30 have down the pipe? It's my understanding that particular gun often does better during break in with hotter 124gr ammo. Some have reported issues during break in using 115gr ammo.

Welcome to the forum and nice pic!
Thank you. and my P30 has about 550 rounds through it. All the rounds have been standard factory loaded 115gr. FMJs. All of the federal champion and federal American Eagle that I have put through it has been pretty good without any malfunctions. I haven't been able to find any reasonably priced +P stuff that wasn't JHP. I bought the P30 because it would be cheaper to shoot, but if I have to shoot +P JHPs all the time, then I'm better off without it.

Thanks for the feedback on the .45s. I guess I just hear everyone rave about their HK45s and when I went and checked one out, I didn't see what all the fuss was about and was seeking enlightenment.
 

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It seems like you've already made up your mind. I'd say get the USPc .45 instead of HK45c.
You should have gone through 124gr ammo (or +P) to break in your P30L first. Then you can use any 115gr after it's broken in. You can get the 124gr +P ammo from sgammo.com (Winchester Mil-spec).

I broke in 2 of my P30s and P30Ls using these rounds and no problem whatsoever.
 

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Thank you. and my P30 has about 550 rounds through it. All the rounds have been standard factory loaded 115gr. FMJs. All of the federal champion and federal American Eagle that I have put through it has been pretty good without any malfunctions. I haven't been able to find any reasonably priced +P stuff that wasn't JHP. I bought the P30 because it would be cheaper to shoot, but if I have to shoot +P JHPs all the time, then I'm better off without it.

Thanks for the feedback on the .45s. I guess I just hear everyone rave about their HK45s and when I went and checked one out, I didn't see what all the fuss was about and was seeking enlightenment.
I have a P30LS 9mm some of them only need a few boxes of 124gr Winchester Nato FMJ or other Nato 9mm ammo will do fine to help a minor spring break in period...this ammo is like around $10.00 a box then it will shoot any 115 gr. low power factor load's....
 

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Thank you. and my P30 has about 550 rounds through it. All the rounds have been standard factory loaded 115gr. FMJs. All of the federal champion and federal American Eagle that I have put through it has been pretty good without any malfunctions. I haven't been able to find any reasonably priced +P stuff that wasn't JHP. I bought the P30 because it would be cheaper to shoot, but if I have to shoot +P JHPs all the time, then I'm better off without it.

Thanks for the feedback on the .45s. I guess I just hear everyone rave about their HK45s and when I went and checked one out, I didn't see what all the fuss was about and was seeking enlightenment.
Pick up some Winchester NATO 9mm ammo.

Here:

Ammunition To Go : 500rds - 9mm Winchester NATO Mil-Spec 124gr. FMJ Ammo [Q4318] - $135.95
 

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If you need convinced to buy a HK45c even after you spent time with it then I'd say the HK45c isn't what you really want and I would get the USP45c.
What ^^HE^^ said.
 

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My P30 had some ejects back to my face at first but never failed to fire or eject. I used only federal 115 grain. After about 500 rounds there were no more problems. I wound up getting a used P30L to go with it. I don't know what it is but I love that P30L. It eats anything I use and never a problem. I need to take the P30 out again but I just keep grabbing the Long version.
 

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. . . I want to get something a bit more compact for my next HK, and pretty much have made up my mind that I want it to be chambered in .45. That being said, my choices are really between the USPc .45 and the HK45c. I am really leaning toward the USPc because of my experiences with my USP full size. The thing has been flawless and as we all know, USPs are so damn cool. I got to check out an HK45c at the local dealer the other day, and was impressed by the trigger, much more than my P30L anyways. I also liked the slimmer profile and greater ability to conceal if carried. However, I am not impressed by the O-ring or the almost $300 price difference. I am not too partial to the grip on the HK45c either.

Does anyone have a good reason for me to spend the extra money and get the HK45c when a USPc .45 is arguably just as nice of a pistol with a longer track record of reliability? or is it 6 of one and a half dozen of the other? . . .
The two guns are essentially the same weapon under the hood. If you do not really require the universal accessory rail on the HK45 Compact, you are a righty, and the USP Compact 45 fits your hand size, then there is absolutely NO reason to bother with the HK45 Compact whatsoever.

The HK45 Compact IS a USP 45 Compact which has been adapted such that one pistol can try to accomodate all the different body-types of people that might make up an entire police department. . . from right-handed, 4' 8" tall, 85 lb women with tiny hands; to left-handed, 6' 5", 240 lb gorillas who can palm a basketball with one hand, while lifting up a pickup truck with the other. Then it got a universal accessory rail to accomodate any and all accessories that any type of LEO might ever decide to hang off it. If you are trying to equip an entire force or department with just one pistol, the HK45 Compact makes ALOT of sense. . . and equiping everybody with the same pistol has ALOT of logistical advantages for an agency.

All of that having been said: if you are buying one pistol, just for you yourself to use (and not an entire department); you are a right-handed shooter (or a lefty who is comfortable with right-handed controls); you don't really require a universal accessory rail; and, the grip & trigger-reach of the USP Compact 45 fits your hand; then there is zero advantage to the HK45 Compact over the USP Compact 45. They both shoot and handle exactly the same. The USP Compact 45 is already perfect for the majority of individual shooters. If you are in that majority, then there is no reason to spend hundreds of dollars extra on an HK 45 Compact.

Right now, the USP Compact 45 is selling at a bargain-rate discount as compared with the HK45 Compact, because the HK45 Compact has "the latest thing", "new-car" persona. That will not remain to be the case long-term. Eventually, they will stop producing the USP series altogether. When used HK45 Compacts become commonplace (not too far off), and USP Compacts are no longer being produced, you will see German USP Compact 45s selling for as much as, and more than, used HK45 Compacts.

The USP Compact 45 is not a lesser pistol than the HK45 Compact in any way. . . Think of the USP Compact 45 as a Porshe 911; and an HK45 Compact as a Porshe 911 with handicap access.

:350:
 

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The two guns are essentially the same weapon under the hood. If you do not really require the universal accessory rail on the HK45 Compact, you are a righty, and the USP Compact 45 fits your hand size, then there is absolutely NO reason to bother with the HK45 Compact whatsoever.

The HK45 Compact IS a USP 45 Compact which has been adapted such that one pistol can try to accomodate all the different body-types of people that might make up an entire police department. . . from right-handed, 4' 8" tall, 85 lb women with tiny hands; to left-handed, 6' 5", 240 lb gorillas who can palm a basketball with one hand, while lifting up a pickup truck with the other. Then it got a universal accessory rail to accomodate any and all accessories that any type of LEO might ever decide to hang off it. If you are trying to equip an entire force or department with just one pistol, the HK45 Compact makes ALOT of sense. . . and equiping everybody with the same pistol has ALOT of logistical advantages for an agency.

All of that having been said: if you are buying one pistol, just for you yourself to use (and not an entire department); you are a right-handed shooter (or a lefty who is comfortable with right-handed controls); you don't really require a universal accessory rail; and, the grip & trigger-reach of the USP Compact 45 fits your hand; then there is zero advantage to the HK45 Compact over the USP Compact 45. They both shoot and handle exactly the same. The USP Compact 45 is already perfect for the majority of individual shooters. If you are in that majority, then there is no reason to spend hundreds of dollars extra on an HK 45 Compact.

Right now, the USP Compact 45 is selling at a bargain-rate discount as compared with the HK45 Compact, because the HK45 Compact has "the latest thing", "new-car" persona. That will not remain to be the case long-term. Eventually, they will stop producing the USP series altogether. When used HK45 Compacts become commonplace (not too far off), and USP Compacts are no longer being produced, you will see German USP Compact 45s selling for as much as, and more than, used HK45 Compacts.

The USP Compact 45 is not a lesser pistol than the HK45 Compact in any way. . . Think of the USP Compact 45 as a Porshe 911; and an HK45 Compact as a Porshe 911 with handicap access.

:350:
If I had read this before I bought my HK 45c I would have gotten the USP 45c. It is not that I don't like the my choice but after shooting it I really do not see the price difference. For what I use it for, and I also fall ito the categories above, (right handed comfortable with usp ergo's & don't need a rail). Am I sorry - NO. Do I wish I would have at least bought one used instead of new, and saved a couple hundred - YES. That being said I do love the gun, but agree with you that if the hk45c had the grip of the p30/hk45 I would love it alot more. The sides of the p2000/hk45c grip leave alot to be desired for me. But for me when I pick up a full sized usp it just feel right in my hand and fills it correctly. I love the grip on my p30, but i have to shoot it differently, even if i put the large back/side plates on, when it is in s/a-cocked I can get to the second knucle on my finger wrapped around the trigger. I have to use the tip of my trigger finger and press versus the first knuckle and squeeze and it is almost the same with the hk45c. Hold/shoot both if you can but if your not blown away by the differences, save the money, you won't be getting short changed.
 

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My P30L 9mm had been giving me some issues as well with stovepipes, It will run fine for a couple mags, and then it will start stovepiping just about every other round. I have noticed the more I oil it the better it gets. But I have been using the 115 grain as well. I am going to switch to the 124 grain and see how it goes. I think its just a break in period with these guns. My new HK45 has been flawless. Oh well a HK working half the time still beats a Glock any day of the week!!! :)
 

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Here is my take on the P30L break-in, for what it is worth--probably not much. My P30L stovepiped and FTE'd a few times the first time I took it out. I came home to read up on it, which is how I found this forum. There are a few other threads in here that mention this problem. After reading what I could find here and elsewhere, I racked the slide manually a couple hundred times, then left it locked open overnight. Next day at the range and every time since, no failures no matter what I put in it. Maybe not the most scientific or conventional way of going about the business, but I did save a heap on expensive ammunition.
 

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I've had MULTIPLE FTEs & stovepipes with my P30... there just sprung tight...
 

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Can't offer anything on the 45's, but have going on 4 years experience with P30's. Love em!
The 9's had FTE's and stovepipes for the first several hundred rounds each, now after thousands of rounds they all will fire anything.

Looking at the action carefully, there is red(was?? haven't shot a new one lately) paint on the recoil spring. On the outside of the spring where the nylon bushing rides over it, the red pain rubs off and ends up inside your slide and action. Essentially what is happening is the inside of the nylon bushing is being "reamed to fit" by the recoil spring, which bunches up towards the back of the stroke. Also the recoil rod needs to wear in. Until this happens you will get some "extra drag" on the action and low powered (cheap 115's etc) rounds cannot overcome it.

Once you get past that stage your P30L will probably eat anything without failures. Hand racking the slide will probably help as mentioned above.

If you know anything about springs it's not that the spring gets weaker with use, especially several hundred, or even thousand usages, it's more so the nylon bushing and the slide rod wearing in.

You'll really like the P30 once it quits doing that. The P30's I see with + 3000 rounds or more act like a Swiss watch............smooooooooooooooothhh!

NOTE: seldom if ever saw a FTE with a P30 in .40
 

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I second orfeo's reply in spades.

My first HK is the fs USP .45 and the second the USPc .45, supposedly for my wife's use (she chose it over several 9mm HKs). It is not less concealable than the HK45c in any way; in fact, some dimensions on the HK45c are slightly larger than on the USPc .45. Too, both compacts can use the 8 or the 10 rd mags, so even the versatility is identical. The only operational difference is the accessory rails.

About a year after buying the USPs, I got a P30L and a P2000SK. There are a number of threads on this forum about issues in breaking in the recoil spring on P30(L)s. I had the problem in spades. While the P30L is my more frequently used now for targets, it took nearly a 1,000 rds for it to enjoy an appetite of 115 gr rds. It is also more sensitive than either USP to my right thumb resting against the slide instead of pointing forward in that the slide won't lock back on the last round. I have to be assiduous about my right hand grip for the slide to lock back, and I'm not talking about the right thumb resting inadvertently on the slide release lever, which, IMHO, is toooooo long.

It is also sensitive w/ 115 rds to the slightest hint of limp wristing. Infrequently, during some drill sessions, I will have a spate of FTFs that go away immediately I go back to a standard stance, fully controlled grip situation.

What I should do is see if the problems occur when using 124 gr rds.

Anyway, as much as I enjoy the P30L as a target gun, my choices for PD remain the USPs and, for carry, the P2000SK, which is an absolute delight to use.
 

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leicar7, i have a P30's and one L model both 9mm's..i think i saw a pic. of a safety model that the slide release is shorter...i shot my P30LS with like 2 or so mag's of 124gr Nato then 115 ran fine. I also cleaned it and put some Militec-1 that seemed to really smooth out the gun when new.

My P30s standard seemed to need use more +P+ BPLE(i did not have any Nato at the time) i had but neither has failed once. Plus i hope to get my second P30s 9mm from lahilljack this coming week really hope..

I carry a USPc stainless 9mm i just really like this gun! Good Luck with your P30L...
 

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deeHKman,

The range of experiences w/ P30(L)s in 9mm (no known report of .40 version problems) varies from mine (~ 1,000 breakin rds) to zero problems w/ 115 gr from the gitgo. I clean mine every few hundred rds, more frequently if I don't plan to shoot again within a few weeks.

I think the 115 rds are just weak enough that the gun functions at the edge. Any deviation from full attention interferes w/ the slide movement. I suspect a rd w/ more recoil force would solve all problems neatly.
 
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