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Discussion Starter #1
I'd never blame the gun for shooting left.
Except now I am. Because of optical amplification. Lasers.

Help me diagnose.

It's not my finger placement:
- Others who have used my usp shoot left with it as well

It's not the sights, (nor mine/others finger placement):
- using lasers (Ammo Strike, fwiw) on the range my shots goes straight...very, very straight.
As in I feel good to see it light up the bullseye with just about every single shot. Never leaning left then.

It's not the ammo:
- Cheap ammo seem to veer a bit all over the place, but decent brands stay consistent (even though it's all left).

So -

Lasers don't touch the barrel. And when I shoot laser I'm spot on all the time.
So it's not my finger or grip. It's not the sights or ammo. It's something after ignition.

Which leads me to believe it could be the barrel. Or, alternatively, skewed frame/slide-lockup.

How can I test and possibly remedy this?
Hopefully without buying a new barrel to test this out.
Sending it to Bill Springfield?

- The date code is BG, so 2016 make. Barrel should be new.
- I've polished some of the internal surfaces for that smooth pull, but the problem was present prior so I rule out that even as a variable.
- Again, using lasers (both single/double action) it goes straight.

bg4.jpg
 

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I had a USPc that shot left. I tapped on the rear sight with a brass punch and hammer. Problem solved.
 

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Are you using a laser sight, or one of those laser cartridges? If its the latter, it means nothing that you're shooting that straight, if you know that you're using a laser cartridge.

Are you right-handed? How far left are we talking about, at what distance, with what sized groups? Is there a noticeable flinch when you do a ball-and-dummy drill?

How have you ruled out the sights? Perfectly centered sights don't necessarily correspond to a sighted pistol for your eyes.


There are two major possibilities: you're shooting left because you're anticipating, or else the sights themselves are off. If you're using a laser round, and you know that its a laser round in the chamber, then its irrelevant that you can shoot that straight, because you've removed the anticipation factor. The easiest way to rule out the sights is to have an accurate shooter try it out on slow-fire (I'd say accurate being someone who can shoot >85 in 10 rounds on a B8 at 25 yards); the easiest way to rule out anticipation is to do some ball-and-dummy and see if you flinch when you get a dummy round.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I had a USPc that shot left. I tapped on the rear sight with a brass punch and hammer. Problem solved.
Thanks. But that would not solve the actual problem efficiently:
As I shoot straight with lasers, the sights are not the problem. Adjusting them would amplify the problem over distance.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Are you using a laser sight, or one of those laser cartridges? If its the latter, it means nothing that you're shooting that straight, if you know that you're using a laser cartridge.
Could you expand on that?
Because anticipation? More on that below.

Tried both. Talking about the latter, cartridges.

How have you ruled out the sights? Perfectly centered sights don't necessarily correspond to a sighted pistol for your eyes.
Yes. Should it be the sights fault lasers should be landing left, not spot on. No?

I wish it would be the sight though. Not just because that would be the cheapest fix, but that would mean neither me or the gun is misbehaving!


There are two major possibilities: you're shooting left because you're anticipating, or else the sights themselves are off.
That would mean every other person who have shot it are also terrible shooters / anticipating.
Sure, that's a possibility. Just not a likely one.


The easiest way to rule out the sights is to have an accurate shooter try it out on slow-fire (I'd say accurate being someone who can shoot >85 in 10 rounds on a B8 at 25 yards)
20-25 yards.
http://i.imgur.com/IBxj5aF.jpg
At least the problem is concistent (about 2-3000 rounds in on this gun now)


Better shooters than me have tried it though. Have all been leaning Left.

the easiest way to rule out anticipation is to do some ball-and-dummy and see if you flinch when you get a dummy round.
I don't have this problem with any other gun.
Shoot straight with others.
Anticipation being a possibility, but just not a likely one.


Fwiw:

Mags shows this wear...
http://i.imgur.com/IU7nmMi.jpg

Barrel lockup
http://i.imgur.com/FoMWumz.jpg
 

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That would mean every other person who have shot it are also terrible shooters / anticipating.
Sure, that's a possibility. Just not a likely one.
Maybe, maybe not; I'm generally not very impressed with most shooters, but I don't know your level of skill, nor the people you asked to shoot the gun, so I can't make any accurate judgment; I will say that I don't think finger placement matters very much for slow-fire. That being said, the 25 yard group looks okay; I'd still like to see a 10 round group at 25 yards, with the ammo listed, but its not a big deal.

Yes. Should it be the sights fault lasers should be landing left, not spot on. No?
Not necessarily; the results of a laser boresight is just a suggestion, and not always dead on, due to differences in unlocking, tolerances in the dimension of the laser cartridge and/or chamber, etc. If you're able to get good, consistent groups at range, just zero your iron sights for that, and ignore what the laser boresight is telling you.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Have these people EVER shot an HK USPc DA/SA trigger before ?
Redeem your honor and post, and the smug assumptions with it!

Let's say No, they sure haven't, and as you know the USPc machinery is incredibly unique obviously they're all not experienced with it
so that you can save your face. You were totally right.


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For anyone else that care to help. A thought occurred to me.
I did try out USPc's before buying this one, both in AZ and CA, and I did not have this problem then.
 

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Redeem your honor and post, and the smug assumptions with it!

I did try out USPc's before buying this one, both in AZ and CA, and I did not have this problem then.
The reason I ask is HK triggers generally break towards the back . A lot of people have a problem dealing with all the take-up when they first start shooting HK's and pull the shot left . It's NOT uncommon for this to happen at first. Some right handers are also left eye dominant , which can also have an affect on shot going left .

BTW - Not to be smug but the picture you posted of the muzzle is NOT where the barrel " locks up " .That would be where the Barrel Hood mates with the slide .
 

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Fundamental question: How do you know that the laser is pointing *exactly* down the barrel in the direction a bullet will actually travel?

I expect that the laser is misleading you, in that it is not *perfectly* aligned with the bore axis and/or the bullet direction as it leaves the barrel. It would only take a fraction of a tenth of a degree misalignment to be off the actual bullet point of impact at shooting distance. That would be a much simpler explanation for what's going on. The fact that the laser and the sights are aligned would be mere coincidence.

Drift one of the sights; end of issue. (and don't forget to check the front sight -- it can be drifted for windage like the rear sight, so it can be off, too)
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I expect that the laser is misleading you, in that it is not *perfectly* aligned with the bore axis and/or the bullet direction as it leaves the barrel. It would only take a fraction of a tenth of a degree misalignment to be off the actual bullet point of impact at shooting distance. That would be a much simpler explanation for what's going on. The fact that the laser and the sights are aligned would be mere coincidence.

Very valid point, I've thought about this too.

If this were true, misalignment, then rotating the bore would yield different results with the laser. But it does not.

Then again it does warrant some further testing. Since it's laser I'd be able to clamp it down for a more precise measure.
Possibly aiding it with a laser sight as well for good measure. Will do this next time out.

Thanks for sparking the idea!

Sidenote: using this after wading through some cheaper options. Very satisfied with it.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I'd still like to see a 10 round group at 25 yards, with the ammo listed, but its not a big deal.
I want to see that too :p

Shooting Prime Ammunition exclusively. Link here.
I'm documenting every time at the range. Going to have a laser-focused round next time out (see post above) just for kicks/science.
Will see what comes out of that.


If you're able to get good, consistent groups at range, just zero your iron sights for that, and ignore what the laser boresight is telling you.
I might end up this route. It's an easy fix.

However....I am anal-retentive. So naturally what irks me, what rustles my jimmies, is false conditioning.
On top of that I frequently switch between laser and rounds, and inconsistencies bothers me.
 

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Shooting Prime Ammunition exclusively. Link here.
.
$.325/rd 9mm! Dude, unless you're a Rockefeller or sponsored, you're never going to be able to shoot enough of that boutique ammo to get any kind of good with that iron. Ditch the bourgie 'prime' ammo and you'll be able to feed that pistol a third more of any of a number of good quality brass cased 9mm.

And just drift the damn sight already. This isn't a precision rifle that you're trying to take out to a mile. It's a sidearm. Minute of badguy's vitals gets it done. Put it on a bag for stability, shoot a 5 shot group at 5yds. Tap it with a punch and hammer. Repeat. Problem solved.
 

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I agree that hk trigger breaks far back, sometimes you tip the muzzle to the left because of that long trigger travel. I will pull the trigger as slow as I can and re aim it the same time. And you can find out whether the gun is really shooting left in that way. I found a bore sighter works. if the boresighter line up with the fix sight well, you know it's the trigger pull.
 

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What if you purchased a rifle sand bag. Put the gun on a ledge or table use the sand bag to steady the gun. Just a thought.
Charles
 

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$.325/rd 9mm! Dude, unless you're a Rockefeller or sponsored, you're never going to be able to shoot enough of that boutique ammo to get any kind of good with that iron. Ditch the bourgie 'prime' ammo and you'll be able to feed that pistol a third more of any of a number of good quality brass cased 9mm.

And just drift the damn sight already. This isn't a precision rifle that you're trying to take out to a mile. It's a sidearm. Minute of badguy's vitals gets it done. Put it on a bag for stability, shoot a 5 shot group at 5yds. Tap it with a punch and hammer. Repeat. Problem solved.
What BSOE said.
 

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I don't see why some people have such a problem with drifting the sight a little bit to correct a windage problem. If you are shooting tight groups, just not exactly on target, drift the sight a bit. Keep shooting the way you are comfortable shooting and the problem is solved.


Dennis
 
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