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Discussion Starter #1
I have a friend with a transferrable HK21 built on a RR HK91 (shelf gun) and an excellent condition FMP kit. This is a Vollimer marked gun built by Dwyer. It has been test fired only, like a real 20-40 rnd test not a 2k round test. Everything looks mint on it and it's painted a nice OD green. He's looking to sell and not sure of current pricing. The last couple I've seen sell were MM23's or 21e sear guns so I'm not sure what to tell him. Any input would be helpful.
 

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The positive is that the HK21 built on a RR HK91 is a machine gun in and of it's self, however, the down side is that the HK21 is a lot less user friendly than the drop down belt system on the 21e and the 21's I have fired were a rougher ride than the MM21e. Lastly since one can not remove the sear from the HK21 and use with other host guns, the full auto HK21 will not be worth anywhere near the cost of the MM21e ($12K) and a sear ($15K).

The few HK21s I have seen sold a few years ago were under the cost of just a sear, but none of these were 100% nearly new in the box (if a box existed ;-) guns and all prices were depressed then. My two cents worth to start the discussion.
 

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The positive is that the HK21 built on a RR HK91 is a machine gun in and of it's self, however, the down side is that the HK21 is a lot less user friendly than the drop down belt system on the 21e and the 21's I have fired were a rougher ride than the MM21e. Lastly since one can not remove the sear from the HK21 and use with other host guns, the full auto HK21 will not be worth anywhere near the cost of the MM21e ($12K) and a sear ($15K).

The few HK21s I have seen sold a few years ago were under the cost of just a sear, but none of these were 100% nearly new in the box (if a box existed ;-) guns and all prices were depressed then. My two cents worth to start the discussion.
If its a shelf gun then its not a "true" machine gun. The true ones are double pushpins IE swing down trigger mech, not a clip and pin job.
 

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If its a shelf gun then its not a "true" machine gun. The true ones are double pushpins IE swing down trigger mech, not a clip and pin job.
May not be a true version of the HK21 but if it was built on a registered receiver full auto HK91, then one hopes the HK21 has a safe, semi and full setting that works with out needing a $15K sear pack or trigger pack in addition (would effect the price a bit ;-).

Did not think the 21e's were double push pin guns ....
 

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PSG1

Not a true machine gun? They emerged from the factory in that configuration (just not eligible for import to US since 1968). Still a NFA full auto (form 4) and much faster than a MM21.

ok...

Schlafftablett

I had a Fleming "title" (maybe Dyer contract build, because really nice welds) RR/clip on that then had TSC 21 upgrades and was traded near $22,000 in goods 3 years ago. Unfired since Mike @ TSC did his conversion work. We put 8,000 rounds as the original build, and unknown how many before us. Before the conversion, it could pull 200 round belts at about 1,200 rounds a minute (oh, the times and cheap ammo).
 

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Here's my take on things. The market is a bit flat for these guns right now. Certainly, the Michael's Machines MM23E has drawn a lot of interest and added a bunch of beltfeeds that otherwise wouldn't be on the market right now. A shelf gun, without the 21 build is probably the least desirable HK machine gun out there. Very few of these being built into 21s right now, as the MM guns are a much better price point for most people. What's it worth? Has it had any upgrades? If not, the Vollmer guns usually had their buffers cut in the buttstock. That usually leads to dimples inside the rails at the back of the receiver. The gun may look pretty, but probably needs some work to get it from beating itself to death. I think there is a very limited market for this gun today, so it would be a difficult sale @ $15k.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks guys, I'll let him know. He was thinking $25k based on what he was seeing MP5s selling for and nothing more. He's had the gun for well over 10 years and after never shooting it the entire time has decided the money could be better used elsewhere I guess.

It does say Vollmer on it so I think it's good there but I was wondering about the "Hustler & Kroch, Chantilly Va" stamping. Oh well, I'm sure it's fine. ;)
 
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