[SemperFi]

I recently held the Walther PPQ 9mm and had that familiar feeling of the HK P30. In overall looks and feel it appears "inspired" by the P30. IRT its Striker-Fired Trigger, I was wondering how it compares to our P30 LEM version. I know that a few of the HK Forum members have "sinned" and bought a PPQ. Please let me know your impressions of the weapon, and contract to you P30 experience. I'm also interested in the differences between the trigger systems of LEM and the PPQ?

 

[dwillHK]

http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-handgun-talk/148979-walther-ppq-hk.html

 

[balance]

I believe Walther and H&K are in constant competition to one-up each other as far as designs and features in their polymer pistols.

I think it started when Walther released their first polymer pistol in 1997, the P99. Walther contracted Cesare Morini, Morini Competition - Products , an Italian Olympic pistol grip designer to design the grip of the P99, and Walther was the manufacturer who created the idea of replaceable backstraps in polymer pistols. Before the P99 came out, ergonomics didn't seem to be a main focus to polymer pistol manufacturers, as all the others felt like blocks in my hands before then, IMO.

In 2001, H&K released their first P-series pistol, the P2000, which IMO, looked a lot like a P99, and also used a more ergonomic grip than their USP-series pistols. The P2000 also used replaceable backstraps, like the P99, to help the shooter get a more customizable and comfortable grip on the pistol.

In 2006, H&K released the P30. Like Walther did with the P99, H&K outsourced the grip design of this pistol, and in the P30's case, it was outsourced to Karl Nill, which also makes world class Olympic pistol grips as shown in their website here: Nill Griffe - News , to create the grip of the P30. H&K also took the adjustable polymer grip designs one step further than Walther did, and added the option of replaceable side panels to this pistol.

In 2008, Walther updated the grip of the P99 when they made the newer P99Q and P99D pistols, and these pistols use the same grip that Walther put on the PPQ, which was released in 2011.

The PPQ and P99 use the same shapes on the frontstrap and backstrap of the grip. The difference between the grips of these two pistols is that Walther made the sides of the grip more rounded, and IMO, more comfortable with the grip on the PPQ. They also improved the texture of the grip, and made the PPQ grip more aggressive and made it stick to the hand easier than with the P99. I don't believe Walther just flat out copied the grip of the P30, since the P99 and PPQ grips are so similar, but I do believe the release of the P30 forced Walther to update the grip design of the P99 to give them an advantage when competing with H&K to win contracts.

If you don't believe me, pick up a P99 and PPQ in both hands and I believe you will see and feel the resemblance. Personally, I am happy that these two manufacturers are competing with each other, as they seem to keep improving their pistol product lines to give them an upper hand when competing, and as a result, we keep getting improved designs because of this.

As far as I'm concerned, the grip is the main similarity between the P30 and the PPQ. The internals are completely different, with one being hammer-fired and the other being striker-fired.

 

[TGS]

Personally, I am happy that these two manufacturers are competing with each other, as they seem to keep improving their pistol product lines to give them an upper hand when competing, and as a result, we keep getting improved designs because of this.

QFT.

 

[Omega Man]

The Walther PPQ was inspired by the Walther P99. The HK P30 was inspired by the Walther P99. The P99 came before the P30.

 

[P30]

I believe Walther and H&K are in constant competition to one-up each other as far as designs and features in their polymer pistols.

I think, you are right and the competition starts in Germany: List of service pistols by German police agencies
To understand the chart: Behörde = agency, Polizei = police, alt = old, neu = new. The words after police mean the states of Germany.

So, this is what the 16 German federal states use:

HK: 7 states
Walther: 5
SIG Sauer: 4

KSK, federal police, military police and customs use HK, too.

Walther contracted Cesare Morini, Morini Competition - Products , an Italian Olympic pistol grip designer to design the grip of the P99 [...] Like Walther did with the P99, H&K outsourced the grip design of this pistol, and in the P30's case, it was outsourced to Karl Nill, which also makes world class Olympic pistol grips as shown in their website here: Nill Griffe - News , to create the grip of the P30.

Very interesting info about the grip designers (I already knew this about HK and Nill but not about Walther and Morini).

The Walther PPQ was inspired by the Walther P99. The HK P30 was inspired by the Walther P99. The P99 came before the P30.

And the P99 was inspired by the Glock. The Glock was inspired by the HK VP70 (first polymer pistol on the planet).
And the list goes on and on and on... :wink:

 

[gtmtnbiker98]

I recently held the Walther PPQ 9mm and had that familiar feeling of the HK P30. In overall looks and feel it appears "inspired" by the P30. IRT its Striker-Fired Trigger, I was wondering how it compares to our P30 LEM version. I know that a few of the HK Forum members have "sinned" and bought a PPQ. Please let me know your impressions of the weapon, and contract to you P30 experience. I'm also interested in the differences between the trigger systems of LEM and the PPQ?

How does the PPQ "compare to our P30 LEM version?" It doesn't. The trigger and associated reset is night and day different between the two.

"I know that a few of the HK Forum member have 'sinned' and a bought a PPQ." Yep, count me in for two sins.

Comparing the two, lets see, I've got a "few" rounds through the P30 and P30L after three years of dedicated use and can render a brief comparison between the P30 and the PPQ. Long story short, I bought my first PPQ on December 23rd and haven't picked an HK up since to take to the range (not entirely true, I took my P2000SK along twice, since it was my CCW). As a matter of fact, I picked up a second PPQ 9mm in February and a PPS last Wednesday. I'm north of 4,300 rounds through my first PPQ and can say that I am faster with the 'Q' than I am with the P30 and this was based upon the first outing with the 'Q'.

Does this mean that I'm going to be selling any of my HK's? No. The PPQ is just another pistol with it's own set of unique attributes. Is the trigger better on the PPQ, IMO yes, it is perhaps the best trigger on the market out of the box and potentially beats the M&P with all the Apex crap thrown in. YMMV.

 

[Rocket]

"I know that a few of the HK Forum member have 'sinned' and a bought a PPQ." Yep, count me in for two sins.

I'm in for one sin. I picked up a PPQ on Friday. I'm headed to the range today to finally put some rounds through it. Just running through some dry firing exercises and reloads, I'm really liking this gun. Time will tell when I get to the range and after putting some rounds through it. One thing I liked immediately about the PPQ was the mag release. I really like the "overly" extended mag release. And for the price, just over the half century mark, with no need for trigger modification...hard to beat.

 

[dwillHK]

Also a member of the PPQ club. Picked up a 9mm one a few weeks ago.

 

[digiadaamore]

I too own a PPQ and must say it was NOT inspired by the p30. it was inspired by a p99 variant known as the P99RAD it came before the p30

 

[DOE]

The PPQ has a very short reset. I like a lot!

 

[navyman8903]

Here is what matters, when the SHTF and the chips are down, I am taking the P30 with me before a PPQ.

 

[SemperFi]

For $500+ change, I couldn't resist picking it up. Sure does feel very nice. I'm sure it will perform admirably. Still doesn't feel as nice as my P30S V3. And I Don't think this purchase will alter my future plans to procure a P30L. This decision has been complicated by whether to stay with the "S" V3s or to try and go LEM for a slight difference - these variants I believe from the various posts still have a Safety.

 

[DaZe831]

Here is what matters, when the SHTF and the chips are down, I am taking the P30 with me before a PPQ.

Mhmmm

 

[jnug]

They are completely different pistols.

Every once and a while I run into a real HK fanatic that insists that Walther ripped off the HK to build the PPQ....nonsense.....at least I think so. That said I really like my P30 better as a carry piece and I also would favor it as an all around pistol. However, at the range, the PPQ is very very difficult to beat. You would have to pour quite a bit of work into almost anything else to get close to the out of box trigger of the PPQ without going to a 1911 of some sort. Out of the box, I think the comment from another poster regarding speed and the PPQ are pretty common. I just don't think the thing can be beaten if that is going to be the measuring stick. I consider it a great range/competition pistol and maybe the best out of box range pistol if speed is the arbiter.

I know folks that are comfortable using a PPQ for CC. Count me as one that is not. There are things about that trigger that concern me for a Carry piece, issues that go beyond the standard " the best safety is the one between your ears" sort of response you usually get when you get into those discussions. While this is a separate issue, I don't really consider trigger safeties to be safeties either. I think of them more like a switch that allows other pistol functions to be engaged but I can't call something that is right in the middle of the trigger a safety. Combine that with the fact that it is striker fired and at least for me, it falls way behind the P30 as a Carry pistol.

My comments about the trigger safety are not intended as a indirect swipe at Glock either. I think the Glock is a great pistol and the implementation of the "trigger safety" makes a little more sense there. However while there are great features of the Glock I just don't think the trigger safety happens to be one of them. That said I cannot blame Glock for some other designer's implementation of the trigger safety.

One comment about the mag releases. I think this is the one aspect of these two designs where "personal preference" will end up being the final arbiter. I cannot definitively call either the P30 or the PPQ mag releases better than the other. While I think with practice I could grow competent with the PPQ mag release, I simply find the trigger guard more often than I like and regardless of how competent I got with it, I would always feel better about the P30 mag release. It falls very naturally under my fingers for me. There are two aspects of the P30 that are really just a matter of good fortune for me. The longish slide release is not an issue for me and the mag releases fall very naturally for me.

 

[amstaffHK]

It is possible that Walther was inspired by HK because due to the replaceable grip panels, thats the only aspect I can see that may be a possibility. Oh and maybe the slide serrations.

 

[TGS]

It is possible that Walther was inspired by HK because due to the replaceable grip panels, thats the only aspect I can see that may be a possibility. Oh and maybe the slide serrations.

Walther's P99 was the first service pistol to have replaceable backstraps.

The P2000 was a response to the P99. The P30 is a product improvement of the P2000 but with size more fitting for an openly carried duty pistol.

The PPQ is a product improved P99 RAD. As stated earlier, the RAD was in development before/same time as the P30.

 

[amstaffHK]

Walther's P99 was the first service pistol to have replaceable backstraps.

The P2000 was a response to the P99. The P30 is a product improvement of the P2000 but with size more fitting for an openly carried duty pistol.

The PPQ is a product improved P99 RAD. As stated earlier, the RAD was in development before/same time as the P30.

I stand corrected. So all thats left that I can see are the serrations.

Thanks for the history lesson.

 

[TGS]

I stand corrected. So all thats left that I can see are the serrations.

Thanks for the history lesson.

Well, even then......consider that the Phase 1 Mk23 SOCOM pistol had forward serrations for cocking.

When we get down to it, everyone's leeching off John Browing anyway. :100000:

 

[amstaffHK]

When we get down to it, everyone's leeching off John Browing anyway. :100000:

You couldn't be more right man.