[fasth2]

Do you think it would be okay to put a collapsible stock on a 93 pistol? I have a MP5 collapsible stock copy that I was going to weld so it cannot be opened for that gun. I do not want to make it an SBR but at least this way it will look like one. I don't think it would be a big deal if it cannot be opened it should still be illegal. It would be the same as the PPS 43 pistols with a stock on them welded. Thanks

 

[caf82313]

Do you think it would be okay to put a collapsible stock on a 93 pistol? I have a MP5 collapsible stock copy that I was going to weld so it cannot be opened for that gun. I do not want to make it an SBR but at least this way it will look like one. I don't think it would be a big deal if it cannot be opened it should still be illegal. It would be the same as the PPS 43 pistols with a stock on them welded. Thanks

Pretty sure what you are advocating is highly illegal unless I am missing something?

 

[scottinthegrove]

Do you think it would be okay to put a collapsible stock on a 93 pistol? I have a MP5 collapsible stock copy that I was going to weld so it cannot be opened for that gun. I do not want to make it an SBR but at least this way it will look like one. I don't think it would be a big deal if it cannot be opened it should still be illegal. It would be the same as the PPS 43 pistols with a stock on them welded. Thanks

The PPS-43 pistols have the stock folded over the top of the receiver. Where as the HK style stock would still have the rubber but pad at the back of the receiver. Before I did such a thing, I would write to the BATF&E Firearms Technology Branch to be sure. Since getting this wrong could cost you 10 years in Federal prison plus fines or more. Wikipedia list penalties as:

"Violations of the Act are punishable by up to 10 years in federal prison and forfeiture of all devices or firearms in violation, and the individual's right to own or possess firearms in the future. The Act provides for a penalty of $10,000 for certain violations.[31] A willful attempt to evade or defeat a tax imposed by the Act is a felony punishable by up to five years in prison and a $100,000 fine ($500,000 in the case of a corporation or trust), under the general tax evasion statute.[32] For an individual, the felony fine of $100,000 for tax evasion could be increased to $250,000.[33]"

I could be wrong but I read that as 10 years and/or $10,000 fine for possession of an unregistered SBR. And 5 years and/or $100,000 for avoiding the tax. Do I think that a prosecutor would "Throw the book at you" to the maximum extent of the law? No, but at the very least you could loose the roller locked gun in question. Things get exponentially worse from there. And if you were charge with any kind of felony, I bet you could buy a HK registered sear for less than the retainer a good layer would charge to represent you in Federal court.

To me making anything look like something it is not, only impresses those who don't know any better. Those that do know better look upon those with items that pose as something they are not as wannabees. I have tried a full size MP5 clone with my A3 stock retracted with my sear installed. I wanted to see if it would fire that way when I first got my Fleming sear. It just made it that much heavier to shoot like a pistol. I would think a 53 would be that much heavier and harder. Spend that couple hundred dollars on the stamp for a Form 1 and a used A2 stock. Then shoot the gun as it was designed to be shot. There is a huge difference, for the better with a stock on any short barreled roller locked IMHO. YMMV.

Scott

 

[fasth2]

With it being welded you cannot pull the stock out from the closed position. There would be no way to use it as a stock at all. Didnt they weld up Uzi stocks on some builds so they could not be unfolded. It would only be there for visual effects. No function.

 

[fasth2]

I guess what I should have said is with it being welded does it still classify it as a functioning stock. Thank you for posting what the punishment would be. That I already know. I wanted to see if anybody had the answer before I sent a email to them.BATF

 

[jhartmac]

I would get BATF approval, write up your proposal and submit it to the tech branch.

 

[fasth2]

Scott you are right on the comment about impressing and the wannabees. I would say the people who want to impress is the ones remarking their guns as something its not. That's like taking a Chevy or GMC SUV and putting Cadillac trim on it.

 

[scottinthegrove]

Okay, so you understand the penalties involved. The other point I made is I don't know of anyone that has done it or seen a closed welded stock for sale. Maybe the Tech Branch wouldn't have a problem with it. I just don't know. Certainly, there are other pistols for sale with permanently closed stocks for sale. Where the penalties are so severe, I wanted to be clear with that. That and I have shot a roller locked gun in that configuration and it was more difficult (because of the extra weight of the stock than a pistol end cap) to use.

Something else to keep in mind. Most long term members post with not just the members that have posted on the thread in mind. There are also the lurkers that are not going to post but are reading the thread. Another member, possibly years from now might wish to do the same thing the OP wants to do "for the look". That member might not be up on penalties or thought about the extra weight of the welded closed stock would make on shooting the pistol.

Again, I personally think Filing a Form 1 and putting a functional stock (that could be used on more than one firearm) on, would make the pistol so much better and easier to shoot than putting a heavier nonfunctional stock on the back of a pistol for strictly esthetic reasons. Being fortunate enough to own a sear, I have over 20 pistols/barreled receivers that can be used as hosts for the sear. I only have about ten stocks. I keep some of them in a case to bring to the range. I do switch them out as not all the stocks will work with all the pistols. I store the rest of them together away from the pistols.

Someone might very well have written to the Tech Branch as to the use of a permanently closed A3 stock on a roller locked gun. I'm not aware of it. So write a letter. Do not call. I was once told over the phone from someone that worked in the NFA offices in Washington D.C. (this was before they moved) that I could file a Form 1 and register and make a new machinegun. This was 12 or 14 years ago. I asked to have her send that to me in a letter. I never got the letter.

One additional issue that also might be considered is Law Enforcement. The average cop is not well versed in NFA law. I could see possible Law Enforcement "entanglements" if an officer would see a barrel less than 16" with a stock on the end of the receiver. Even if everything is dropped later, arrest, finger prints holding cells, and bail money, don't sound fun to me. And LEO are not well know for gentle care of firearms they feel are a crime. Good luck with the project, whatever you decide to do.

Scott