I have been reading up on NFA ownership because I want to purchase a HK USC and have it converted to a UMP. I read that the "NFA registry is closed" and am not sure what that means. Can anyone enlighten me? My google-fu is weak at the moment.
What does it mean when people say "NFA registry is closed"
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It means they only partial know what they are talking about.
The registry is closed for new MACHINE GUNs.
The registry is wide open for new SBR, SBS, supressors, DD's etc....
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New machine guns are added every day. It has never been closed.
It is a incorrect phrase to use. Like Class 3 License.
I was making the assumption that the OP wasn't an 07 holder, so I figured I'd spare him the fine minutia about civilian vs LE/SOT.
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This is about the best way to sum it up. I have read this twice and seems to be correct, any one who wants to add to this or make a correction please feel free to chime in.
Can you convert your USC to look like a UMP? ..Yes, this would be an SBR (short barreled rifle)
Can you convert your USC to operate like a UMP?.. NO!!
This is what they mean by the NFA Registry being closed to the "new" manufacture by anyone unless they are Licensed to do so!(example) Class II manufacturer)..in which case would be considered a Post May 1986 firearm. Only available to Law Enforcement, Military, or SOT(Special Occupational Tax) who can deal in these types of firearms. (example) Class III Dealer with proper Demo letter.
The domestic manufacture of new machine guns that civilians could purchase was effectively banned by language in the Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986 (also known as "McClure-Volkmer").
The language was added in an amendment from William J. Hughes and referred to as the Hughes Amendment.[21] Machine guns legally registered prior to the date of enactment (i.e. May 1986) are still legal for possession by and transfer among civilians where permitted by state law.
The Hughes Amendment affected only machine guns. All other NFA firearms are still legal for manufacture and registration by civilians under Form 1, and transfer of registration to civilians under Form 4 (though some states have their own laws governing which NFA firearms are legal to own there).
Suppressors and Short Barreled Rifles are generally the most popular NFA firearms among civilians, followed by Short Barrel Shotguns, Destructive Devices, and "Any Other Weapons". While most NFA firearms are bought from manufacturers and transferred to civilians through a dealer, many are made by the civilians themselves after filing a Form 1 and paying the $200 manufacturing tax.
Can you convert your USC to look like a UMP? ..Yes, this would be an SBR (short barreled rifle)
Can you convert your USC to operate like a UMP?.. NO!!
This is what they mean by the NFA Registry being closed to the "new" manufacture by anyone unless they are Licensed to do so!(example) Class II manufacturer)..in which case would be considered a Post May 1986 firearm. Only available to Law Enforcement, Military, or SOT(Special Occupational Tax) who can deal in these types of firearms. (example) Class III Dealer with proper Demo letter.
The domestic manufacture of new machine guns that civilians could purchase was effectively banned by language in the Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986 (also known as "McClure-Volkmer").
The language was added in an amendment from William J. Hughes and referred to as the Hughes Amendment.[21] Machine guns legally registered prior to the date of enactment (i.e. May 1986) are still legal for possession by and transfer among civilians where permitted by state law.
The Hughes Amendment affected only machine guns. All other NFA firearms are still legal for manufacture and registration by civilians under Form 1, and transfer of registration to civilians under Form 4 (though some states have their own laws governing which NFA firearms are legal to own there).
Suppressors and Short Barreled Rifles are generally the most popular NFA firearms among civilians, followed by Short Barrel Shotguns, Destructive Devices, and "Any Other Weapons". While most NFA firearms are bought from manufacturers and transferred to civilians through a dealer, many are made by the civilians themselves after filing a Form 1 and paying the $200 manufacturing tax.
So what we need is a politician to add an amendment to a Bill (law) removing the Hughes amendment. I'm a forum newb, haven't been following these laws for years, never understood them either way, but what all these similar threads tell me is what everyone knows to be true; the whole system needs to be ditched and started over from a clean sheet of paper. Make everything legal again (at least pre-1986), manufacturers could make new MG's, remove the paperwork requirement when moving or traveling with your own property which you already paid the tax for, and automate the whole process. It could all be done online, give them a credit card, the serial number, your SS#, they do an automatic NICS background check, you get a certified receipt online, download and print it out for your records, done. Too simple, maybe. More Constitutional, fair, and less likely to be fiddled with by appointed bureaucrats, definitely. Buyers, owners, collectors, manufacturers, FFL's, even ATF is/are confused, because the whole system is a mess. Rant over.
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Largely an oxymoron
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Dude, don't forget to pass it to the *left*...
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What do you mean?
Closed For new civilian owned machine guns, unless you're a politician supposedly. Not sure if it was posted here or on m4c but someone mentioned certain greedy politicians (perhaps even chuck the hypocrite schumer) having post 86 guns made fully transferable with a call to their pals at the ATF and then reselling or holding for future massive payoff. Also, coincidentally, a MR. J D Farmer Jr attempted to register a new post 86 with the ATF (out of Indiana perhaps?) and ended up suing the ATF when he was denied. ATF lost in federal district court but the ruling was overturned by the eleventh district US court of appeals and the SCOTUS refused to hear the case. NRA was supposed to fight to overturn Hughes but the silence is deafening coming from their end.
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Baby steps, my friends. Baby steps.
As it is now, there are people who can't even own the firearms that are allowed. When some people in this country aren't even allowed to own a semi-auto, we have to fix that before we try for FA guns. While I would like a sweeping change that gives us everything back, the only way change sweeps in this modern world is the other direction. Let's not ask for too big of a change at once, OK?
As it is now, there are people who can't even own the firearms that are allowed. When some people in this country aren't even allowed to own a semi-auto, we have to fix that before we try for FA guns. While I would like a sweeping change that gives us everything back, the only way change sweeps in this modern world is the other direction. Let's not ask for too big of a change at once, OK?
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I don't mean to offend anyone here that is pro gun, but my opinion is to fight the fights we can win, not take on the fights that are most politically correct. My understanding is the votes to include the Hughs Amendment were not actually there to add the amendment to the Firearm Protection Act. But the anti gun Congressmen overseeing the vote put down that there was enough votes. If the Hughs Amendment was improperly added, as with any improperly added amendment, then it should be stricken from that legislation. No Hughs Amendment, my HK sear goes from a market value of $12,000-$13,000 to a couple of hundred dollars. I'd gladly do it if I could file Form 1s to make all my host guns machineguns.
Of course the current Congress could add a ban on machinegun registration or raise the tax from the current $200 (which probably doesn't cover the cost of moving the paperwork and the background check) to what $200 would have been worth is 1934. According to Measuring Worth Measuring Worth - Measures of worth, inflation rates, relative value, worth of a dollar, purchase power and using $200 in 1934 of a commodity, it lists any where from "real price" as $3,260.00, "real value" as $7,430.00, "labor value" as $7,910.00, or "income value" as $18,000.00. YMMV.
Scott
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I'm pretty sure that the only way legislation can be overturned, no matter how it got there in the first place, is with new legislation or a court ruling. As to the grand debasement of the value of your sear... Not so fast. In the specific case of HK, the sear will take a hit, but, IMO, not as dramatic as one would think. There would be a lot of posties that would become available, but there really wouldn't be any new ones since HK must follow the German government legislation prohibiting the sale of machine guns to civilians. The End User Certificate (EUC) requirements are already there and HK will not be selling any machine guns to even SOT's when the current in bond weapons are exhausted. So while the number of HK weapons will increase, it will not be an unlimited number. And the value of having a conversion device that can easily move from weapon to weapon without additional paperwork will still be in place. The market will adjust and then you will see price creep start all over again. As for the rest of the market, a collectable machine gun will *always* be collectable. A *real* 1928 Tommy will *always* be more valuable than current production replicas. Contrary to popular belief, repealing 922(o) will likely have ZERO effect on "those who seek to protect their investments" and such.
If there had been educated debate over the hughs amendment I wouldn't mind so much. It is the way the bill passed that pisses me off. If someone with very deep pockets and political ties tried to challenge the law as a violation of constitution. It might maybe somehow get overturned. But who would even want to try. I wouldn't. It is cheaper to just pay 13k for a tiny h shaped metal stamping or whatever else.
It's not just about sears but the availability of all new guns and new designs not available before the cutoff. FOPA is largely ignored in anti-2nd amendment locales so we basically lost the right to weapons in common use for a protection that disappears at certain state lines. The problem here is that congress has over stepped constitutional authority many times over the last few decades so getting politicians to realize the Hughes amendment violates the constitution because it is a ban that invalidated a tax measure (the only reason the NFA passed in the first place was because congress had authority to tax but not ban) is going to be difficult. It all comes down to the great ill slowly destroying the country... Big government. Make no mistake. The Hughes amendment is illegal and so was the 1994 ban and so is the 89 import ban, but who's going to make the government accept only the limited powers granted by the constitution and allow the states the rest?
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And I can assure you that there are several efforts underway to challenge several of these issues on Constitutional grounds...
I'm pretty sure dangling tantalizing information is also unconstitutional but it's good to hear this and I'm sure hoping these issues are overturned. I think a lot of folks think someone needs to be arrested to challenge this but all you need is a person of good moral character being denied a form 1 or form 4 for a machine gun and then the inevitable lawsuit when he or she is denied. The problem then lies in funding for the lawyers and courts with strict constructionist interpretation agreeing to hear the case. More SCOTUS appointments of liberal judges unopposed by idiot republicans can destroy all the wins so far. Funny though that normally the senate respects the president enough to hold a vote on his nominations but that deference ended with liberals like chuck schumer demanding litmus tests for possible conservative justices nominated by George W Bush. Obama's two hardcore liberals got a nice wave and pass on gun control history even after lying about it during questioning. Let's hope we keep winning but I fear the worst.
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