HKPRO Forums banner

1 - 20 of 72 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
269 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok I am a HUGE HK fan and own more then I need but not as many as I want lol. My HK45 arrived to my FFL on Saturday and I am going over today to do the paper work.

Here is my problem with the 2 new pistols! I went to a local store and looked at brand new P30's and HK45's and both of them had the finish wearing off of the slide release lever. None of my USP's have this problem and some of those pistols have had thousands of rounds shot through them. Even my 1992 P7M13 does not have issues with the finish coming off yet these brand new guns look like they are very used if you look at that part. So why is this happening? Did they not use the same finish as the slide? Is this not the USP finish we all love? I noticed even in the picture threads on here of guns with the finish wearing off already and hell even the HK pictures on their web page the finish is wearing off. So whats up with that?

Dave
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,099 Posts
This has been discussed here recently and to most peoples assumptions HK is using a harder steel for the Slide Release Levers and this results in the finish having a harder time adhering to the levers. The USP slide release levers are very bulky so one could asume that a slightly softer steel can be used, but with the P2000 series, P30, and HK45 HK has designed the slide release to be so thin that they had to go to a harder steel to make it as reliable as the USP slide release.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
149 Posts
Looks good. Gives the pistol "character".

But, should not come new that way?

I've also seen brand new ones with the finish worn on the slide
stop levers? That ain't right.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
915 Posts
Yup, my P2kSK slide release lever is getting purple at the edges, just as some P7 slides can be seen. No problem with it at all.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,156 Posts
just for clarification, the purplish tint does not mean that they are more prone to rust right? It is just the finish wearing off? It is this way on all of my "new style" HK's.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
381 Posts
Mine is also purple as well... well it was before I had CCR refinish it.
 

·
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒ&
Joined
·
1,921 Posts
Mine was wearing NIB. I didn't care though I still Love the thing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
103 Posts
The same is true with my P2000 as well. It looks new in box with the exception of the slide release levers which are worn on the edges. Still a great looking pistol though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
236 Posts
I just received my HK45 from CDNN. I was a bit disappointed in the finish also. As the original poster mentioned, the edges of the slide stops (both sides) seem to be losing their finish somewhat, leaving a copper tint to the corners and edges.

Worse than that, there are two spots on the top of the slide forward of the ejection port on the sight line rib, where it looks like the dark HE finish didn't take and left two small areas that look almost like bare metal, but won't accept cold blue. Finally, there's several places on the sides of the slide where the HE finish looks blotchy and is notably lighter in color than the rest of the slide. It almost looks like a subtle version of urban camo.

I was a little put off by the finish overall. Then I took a look at my NIB vintage USP made several years ago. At first glance, it looked uniform and well finished, but under a bright light, I could see similar blotchy imperfections in the finish, albeit it looked much better than the HK45. My MK23 looks the best, without any hint of finish imperfections.

On the plus side, the internals all look to be machined very nicely. The feed ramp, while not mirror like, is very uniform and well machined, as are the internal surfaces of the slide.

I realize these pistols are duty guns and finish is a secondary concern. I doubt these finish issues make the pistol any less corrosion resistant and certainly won't impact the function in any way.

However, it seems to me that a $900 pistol should arrive to the consumer without any obvious finish flaws. I'll say this, finish issues aren't exclusive to HKs either. I got an FN SLP shotgun which had some rub marks and surface scuffs on the stock, right out of the box. I got a new Colt 6920 that had some notable finish issues as well.

Just out of curiosity, does anyone think that CDNN may get factory seconds or "blems" or is it just the nature of firearms these days that manufacturers don't put the same level of fit & finish they used to?

At any rate, I still really like the HK45. It's a very slender .45 and fits my hand perfectly. I have no doubt it will run like a champ. I do wish they'd have gone with a steel trigger like the MK23 as it doesn't flex like the USP or HK45. That's always been a complaint of mine regarding the action. I'd also like a little stiffer detent on the thumb safety and heavier springs on the magazine release.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
269 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Well CDNN gets the same inventory everyone else does unless they advertise a close out or seconds item. The HK45's and the like are all factory new and the same as the rest of the dealers are getting.

I did the paper work on my new HK45 today and it has not been out of the box and has some wear on the slide releases on both sides. My FFL is my gunsmith and he looked at it and said he could either try blueing them to see if it would take or he said he could do a duracoat finish on them that would match as close as he could get it. I am going to shoot it and enjoy the gun before I do anything to it. I figure there are enough of these guns with this issue that HK has to be aware of it. I am going to drop them an email and see what their response is. I would assume they are going to have to have some type of fix for this. I agree that for a $900 pistol it should not be flawed out of the box. My slide and internals looked perfect and I could not see any finish flaws.

There is a big difference from the purple color the P7 is known for and even some colts etc. With the HK45 and P30 its not a matter of the metal changing color its the finish coming off and rather then being black its looking like copper. The purple color is the bluing changing its tint, some never do it others will look that way out of the factory, it has to do with the metal they used to make those guns. My opinion is if the USP finish on the slide release was not an issue and the finish on the HK45 slide is fine then why the hell can they not get the finish on the the slide release to stay on? In my humble opinion its not right!

My gunsmith who is a very big 1911 fan who by the way is building me a custom one as we speak was very impressed with the feel of the gun and liked it a lot more then the USP series. He even said he might trade his Glock in on one lol. The big 1911 guys can't knock it to much since Larry Vickers was a driving force behind the design of the new HK45.

But anyway, glad to know I am not the only one who isn't excited about the finish coming off. Can't wait to shoot it!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
377 Posts
Hmm... that's kinda disheartening.

I would expect more from a top of the line pistol. Especially one that only needs the slide finished. I mean comn, half the gun is plastic.

I know Sig recently had issues with the finish peeling on CPO's, but those a CPO's, not a brand new pistol.

I realize it's combat pistol, and it's primary job isn't to look pretty, but any wear on the finish should come from me.

If I cause wear to the finish it's character.

If my NIB, HK's finish is showing wear that's a quality control issue.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,015 Posts
Guys,

Relax. This is not "wear" in the traditional sense. H&K uses extremely hard steel for critical wear parts. I spoke to Bob Cogan about this (of AP&W) and he explained that he charges more for HK P7 work because of the hardness of the steel used in the slide and frame. Ever wonder why HK leaves tool marks in the surface of P7s? Because they would be wearing out their machines every week if they tried to remove all of them. This also applies to the slide stops and extractors on P2000s, HK45s, etc. It will appear discolored because of the hardness of the steel in these parts. Remember, HK builds pistols with function, not fashion in mind.

This is not a QC issue. Please don't start another internet anti-HK rumor without knowing the facts.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,976 Posts
Yup, my P2kSK slide release lever is getting purple at the edges, just as some P7 slides can be seen. No problem with it at all.
Harkens back to the old "Proud Member of the Purple Extractor Club" saying that used to float around this board years ago...

LIke Greg Bell said, the steel in this particular part is VERY hard... Mine has started turning also, no big deal... Function over fashion wins my vote every time...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
269 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Guys,

Relax. This is not "wear" in the traditional sense. H&K uses extremely hard steel for critical wear parts. I spoke to Bob Cogan about this (of AP&W) and he explained that he charges more for HK P7 work because of the hardness of the steel used in the slide and frame. Ever wonder why HK leaves tool marks in the surface of P7s? Because they would be wearing out their machines every week if they tried to remove all of them. This also applies to the slide stops and extractors on P2000s, HK45s, etc. It will appear discolored because of the hardness of the steel in these parts. Remember, HK builds pistols with function, not fashion in mind.

This is not a QC issue. Please don't start another internet anti-HK rumor without knowing the facts.

Greg,
With all do respect it is a quality control issue. I am not in any way bashing the HK brand. I own 6 HK handguns and love every one of them however I don't care how "hard" the steel is there is no reason they can not get a finish to stay on the part. I own a couple P7's and both are almost 20 years old. Now how is it that they can keep their finish after almost 20 years of use, many times being drawn from a holster and thousands of rounds fired through them, mine look almost mint. All of this use yet I open the box to my brand new untouched HK45 and the finish is coming right off of the levers and I have not even racked the slide yet? That is not right period! We all love HK here on this site however they are in no ways perfect. Even the pictures on the HK site and other media shows these guns with slide release levers with the finish coming off, so this is not something unique to a couple of pistols. My USP's don't have this issue, are they then not made as well as the HK45? I would sure not think so since the USP has a very strong reputation as being a good go to gun that works. How about some of the HK USP Experts that came into the country this year with HORRIBLE finishes on the slides? Is that ok? Of course it isn't. They are a manufacture and with anything that is manufactured there will be quality issues from time to time. Did the finish on those Experts make the gun function poorly? Of course not, its cosmetics just as this new problem is. Should anyone pay close to or over a 1,000 bucks and be happy with a gun that is not even out of its original box and its finish is coming off? Well I am not one who is happy with that. Its not going to keep me from shooting the gun and enjoying it but I for one will either see if HK finds a solution or go to someone who can and have it fixed. So I am not bashing HK but it is what it is, they need to find a way to improve their process, its obviously not perfect.

David
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,015 Posts
I don't care how "hard" the steel is there is no reason they can not get a finish to stay on the part.
We will just have to agree to disagree then. The expert (Bob Cogan) who I spoke with says its a no-go.



. I own a couple P7's and both are almost 20 years old. Now how is it that they can keep their finish after almost 20 years of use, many times being drawn from a holster and thousands of rounds fired through them, mine look almost mint.
With all due respect, I find it hard to believe this statement. I also, have quite a few P7 myself. In fact, if you ever see the "P7 pro/con FAQ" that has been floating around for about 8 years I am the author of it. I have been shooting them constantly since 91. The finish on the P7 simply cannot stand up to steady re-holstering. If yours look mint you haven't been holstering or shooting them much. If you do a search of the firing line back in 99 you will see the account of my refinishing my P7. There is a reason Hard Chrome is so popular among the P7 crowd--the factory blued finish is just that--blueing. It isn't a wonder finish. This isn't specific to HK. All blued finishes won't stand up long to holstering.


Further, you may have seen my "Break my P2000" thread where I shot 13,000 rounds through my P2000 in the first 5 months of this year. I can tell you, the purplish extractor on my P2000 looks the same as it did on day one, the black part of the finish not so much.


All of this use yet I open the box to my brand new untouched HK45 and the finish is coming right off of the levers and I have not even racked the slide yet? That is not right period!

Let me see a picture of it. Maybe we are talking about two different things? If your finish is "coming off" I would like to see it. The leavers and extractor on my HK45 were colored differently than the other steel parts. I have seen this before on my P2000s (3), P2000SK, etc. If yours is literally peeling off then something is wrong. But I doubt it.


How about some of the HK USP Experts that came into the country this year with HORRIBLE finishes on the slides?
Of course HK can and has screwed up on finishes. You should take a look at the factory Nickel guns from the early 90s. But that doesn't mean the purple extractor/slide release issue is a qc one. Let's stay on topic.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
250 Posts
I personally don't think it's right - and I think that if you returned a handgun based on the finish blemishes you're describing, you'd be in the right, and HK would probably replace it. That is, of course, if you could actually contact HK directly... but that's another story.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Speaking of wonder-finishes...

Can someone describe what exactly, the "HE" finish is?


Also, can anyone confirm or deny for me whether HK uses Tennifer or Melonite as a treatment/finish to their barrels and/or slides, or if it's just steel with a surface coating/finish?

Are the HK45 slides stainless steel? How about the barrels?


Reason I ask is because I have particularly acidic sweat, and I can rust stainless steel within a few hours of handling it, if I don't wipe it down. Same with carbon steels. I've found Robar's NP3 and Kolene's Melonite/Tennifer (Glock) finishes as the only ones that can resist the acid in my sweat. I don't want to spend $900 on a great pistol, and then rust it shut... So, depending on the answers I get to the above, I might be shipping my new HK45 off to have the Melonite process done to it, after it get's broken-in with a thousand rounds or so.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
269 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Greg, I will be able to pick the gun up on Thursday and I will take a pic of it, I was the first one to handle the gun and CDNN only had it for a couple of hours prior to shipping it, so for all intense of purposes it was not handled since shipped from HK. The finish is not pealing off, I never said that, I did say the slide release lever has a copper look to it where the finish is coming off, coming off in the sense of what it looks like when an item is worn from use. It looks just like the ones we have seen in pics from owners here, from HK official photos and even all the gun magazine articles out there about the gun. My P7 finishes are in very good condition and have owned other ones through out the years. Granted mine have not seen the use maybe a NJ State Trooper would have put on one but I have shot IDPA matches with it, practiced with it and shot the hell out of them at the range. The POINT is the HK45 has not even been touched out of the box and there is a finish issue. To you it doesn't matter, to me and many others its a turn off. Again I compare it to the USP which in all reality the HK45 is a replacement to the USP line. I have never had this issue with a USP after thousands of rounds yet the HK45 looks this way out of the box.

I am a very avid trap shooter and shoot a Krieghoff K80, anyone who knows about high end sporting shotguns will tell you the Krieghoff is at the very top of the pack when it comes to quality. My K80 was made in 1991 and looks perfect, I have had the barrel refinished last year for the first time ever but the receiver is the original finish. Now with that said there are other guns made by Ljutic, Perazzi, Kolar, Remington (90T) and many others who's finish comes off after even a years worth of use, some take longer. Yet my K80 is built with the same quality steel as the others but its obvious the other manufactures do not use the same finish or the same process which results in premature finish wear. Does this make Krieghoff better then others? Well some will say its the best others won't, there becomes a lot of brand loyalty when you start talking about these types of guns. One of the reasons I bought a Krieghoff is because the finish does hold up. When you have a $14,000 shotgun with a custom Hilmer stock on it you sure don't want it to look like your duck gun. When I buy a new $900 HK and the finish is coming off its a turn off, I can only imagine what all the Glock guys are going to say when I show them the gun and their Glock cost half of what my new HK did.

So again its not a matter of not liking the gun or it performing well its a matter a short coming in the finish on that one part. HK needs to improve it, and if the steel is keeping it from being able to have a good finish then change the steel.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
140 Posts
From what I'm reading you have a normal looking HK45. Mine is like that. My P2000 and P2000sk are like that and to some degree my USP's. It's their style of finish. It won't rust and that's what I care about because every USP I've owned has been a on duty carry gun. There may be some degrees or different shades of their finish. I would have to see pictures of yours to get exactly what you are saying or seeing. I guess that is one of the drawbacks of buying online. You don't get to pick from a few or compare. The fact is, if you don't like , you don't like it. I hope that someone from CDNN or HK can and will help you.
 
1 - 20 of 72 Posts
Top