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Shh. HK will see this thread and release a special version with a SUPER DELUXE coating with unique serial numbers.

Or worse- actually make a coating to stick the hard steel and charge even more as our dollar takes a crap. :)

They aren't exactly "$900" guns...

$1 gets .68 and change Euro.

Dealers pay more and pass it along.

I did notice this on my 2000SK when I cleaned it. As long as it was considered normal...no biggie.

It's clear HK is very LEO/Military orientated as they don't even have stainless steel anymore. :(

Waiting for a member to hard chrome slide and controls on a P30 or 45.

May look cool, but may look funky too.
 

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From what i recall, HK "Blues" the controlls and other parts, and THEN puts a blackening agent over them. The blackening is only asthetic, and it WILL eventually come off (as in the purple extractor club)

The way the steel takes the bluing, it does not give an even appearance, and will turn a purple-redish colour. This is just the nature of the beast. Its not the finish coming off, and its not a defect. Since the "corners" have a lot of wear versus the surface area, they usually appear to show through first.

Could HK use a better finish on them? I suppose, but have you ever seen a USP's controlls start rusting? I have not. (does not mean it doesn't happen) Im sure parkerizing would take a lot longer.


As for the HE finish (and to answer the question of what it is) its a Nitro Carburized oxide type finish.

It is NOT just the outside that the finish is, it is absorbed into the steel, and protects down into the metal surface:


A neat read here: Im not sure if its the same deal as HK uses, but it sounds like it.
http://www.burlingtoneng.com/case_hardening.html

A blotchy spot could simply be slightly different alloy content in the surface of the steel, or less nitrogen forming alloy components, as the more alloy present in the steel, the thicker the protective layer is formed. Since the steel if Forged, IT VERY WELL COULD BE that the surface is hardened differently, and is chemically different than the core.


In any case, Its not a quality issue, only asthetic. If you want your gun to look "pretty" you buy a 1911.

As for the car example, if i was buying an offroad truck, i wouldn't care if it had scuffs, as i would be doing much worse to it. The most important factor is PERFORMANCE. If i bought a nice sports car, that i would like to display (IE, 1911) i would be very critical of the finish!
 

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What's important?

So far, the post reflects many reasons for purchasing the HK45, (as it is for any "duty" firearm used for leisure or sporting purposes). Among them, obviously, is aesthetic appeal. For those who bought it for its looks, a blemish is a quality issue (this has been mentioned). For those who bought it for pure function, it's a non-issue (also mentioned). And never the twain shall meet.

For those who bought it for a combination of reasons (where the majority would fall, I guess), it's a question of needs and wants.

We're down to a couple of proverbs:

You can't please them all.

Ya pays yer money and ya takes yer pick.

MR2
 

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PS for those of you who do not know Perazzi vs Krieghoff vs Kolar is like the Ford, Chevy and Dodge truck debate. Some will buy what ever a given brand produces no matter if its crap or great. I am one of those who buys what works and is the best for what it is intended to do. My sporting clays gun is not a Krieghoff, I felt there was a better gun for that sport.

I guess we will all have to agree to disagree, some don't care if the finish comes off their gun others do.

Dave
Yeah, Perazzi guns break springs all of the time. I've been shooting mine for going on 15 years now, and replaced them once. I do keep a spare set with me though, because if they break, I can change them myself. I also don't have to spend $500 a year to send the gun off to have an annual check up. As I said, I own a Super Scroll as well. It's a nice looking gun, it just doesn't feel as good to me as the Perazzi. I go for function, over form. Which is why all of this is realative to the thread. Would it be nice if the slide release matched the gun, yes. Obviously it would. Is it critical or worth paying more for the gun or DEMANDING the company do something about it? No, not in my opinion. If it was the slide, I'd say yes.

As for the car analogy, would you buy a car WITH damaged paint? If not, then you understand my point. If it bothers you that much, don't buy it. As everyone has said their guns look like this when brand new, so you had the option not to buy a gun with the "defective" finish.
 

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The point of the car analogy was in response to the "it adds character" posts.

If a brand new anything has blemishes that's not character.

I understand it's not going to be a big deal for some people, and coming from someone who has two threads that the title begins with; "Break my.." Your probly one of them. For others, they expect that a brand new gun, be in brand new condition regardless of what it's made for.

It is a combat pistol, but how many of you are using your HK45 in combat?

I do wonder however, where is the line?

What if the entire slide was like that? Would you be ok with that?

For someone like myself, who's main use for a gun is range use and HD, looks are important to me. It's low on the list, but it is a consideration when I buy any firearm. In addition to a number of reasons, one of the things I dont like about Glock's is how ugly they are.

HK's might not be the most pretty gun out there, but I do like the look of them, and want that look to be 100% when I drop my hard earned money on something that is being sold as 100%.

I do think that sometimes this can be taken too far. There's a thread on Sig Forum about a guy who is complaining because the inside of his slide has tool marks on it. In that situation, I believe that is just nit-picking. On a highly visable area like the controls, it's not something that I would be happy with.

I will most likely pickup an HK45c when they are released as I plan on getting it refinished in hard chrome anyway, but for those that dont go that route, I can certainly understand the complaints.
 

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Silly complaint.



I have both a HK45 and a P30. Both have "blemishes" on the slide release and its obvious even from the most uneducated that the metals are significantly different. (slide vs slide release) All finish beyond the slide release is impeccable on both weapons. Had the slide, for example, had the same blemishes, I would have concerned.

I own many high end firearms to include Nighthawk and STI. THOSE are firearms I'd be a bit miffed about if they arrived to me with blemishes in finish etc. Even then, my firearms are intended for use not "safe queen" status. My STI Edge .40 was scratched up the second it was slipped into Kydex. Seems to continue to shoot just fine. Wonder of wonders.
 

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And frankly, the slide release having a different finish isn't a blemish anymore than the fact that the plastic of the frame and the steel of the slide not matching is a blemish. Different materials color differently.

Again, HK could have brought in some sort of materials engineer and maybe a chemist, and maybe one of the guys from "Queer eye" and spent a lot of time matching the colors. Hell, maybe they should bring in Apple to design their stuff and unveil it at starbucks.

The problem is, HK designs weapons for war, not for fashion shows. Police and military users are going to be more impressed with the fact that HK chooses top grade steel for these parts than if the finish matches their boots.
 

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And frankly, the slide release having a different finish isn't a blemish anymore than the fact that the plastic of the frame and the steel of the slide not matching is a blemish. Different materials color differently.

Again, HK could have brought in some sort of materials engineer and maybe a chemist, and maybe one of the guys from "Queer eye" and spent a lot of time matching the colors. Hell, maybe they should bring in Apple to design their stuff and unveil it at starbucks.

The problem is, HK designs weapons for war, not for fashion shows. Police and military users are going to be more impressed with the fact that HK chooses top grade steel for these parts than if the finish matches their boots.
I would not even want to speculate what color scheme they would come up with in that situation. Slide release would be impeccable...but pink. :380:
 

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From what i recall, HK "Blues" the controlls and other parts, and THEN puts a blackening agent over them. The blackening is only asthetic, and it WILL eventually come off (as in the purple extractor club)

The way the steel takes the bluing, it does not give an even appearance, and will turn a purple-redish colour. This is just the nature of the beast. Its not the finish coming off, and its not a defect. Since the "corners" have a lot of wear versus the surface area, they usually appear to show through first.

Could HK use a better finish on them? I suppose, but have you ever seen a USP's controlls start rusting? I have not. (does not mean it doesn't happen) Im sure parkerizing would take a lot longer.


As for the HE finish (and to answer the question of what it is) its a Nitro Carburized oxide type finish.

It is NOT just the outside that the finish is, it is absorbed into the steel, and protects down into the metal surface:


A neat read here: Im not sure if its the same deal as HK uses, but it sounds like it.
http://www.burlingtoneng.com/case_hardening.html

A blotchy spot could simply be slightly different alloy content in the surface of the steel, or less nitrogen forming alloy components, as the more alloy present in the steel, the thicker the protective layer is formed. Since the steel if Forged, IT VERY WELL COULD BE that the surface is hardened differently, and is chemically different than the core.


In any case, Its not a quality issue, only asthetic. If you want your gun to look "pretty" you buy a 1911.

As for the car example, if i was buying an offroad truck, i wouldn't care if it had scuffs, as i would be doing much worse to it. The most important factor is PERFORMANCE. If i bought a nice sports car, that i would like to display (IE, 1911) i would be very critical of the finish!
Thank you Raptor! That is exactly what I was looking for. This finish is extremely similar to the Tennifer finish on Glocks, and therefore, I don't have to worry about re-finishing the HK45. It will handle my corrosive sweat just fine!

Here's a link to Melonite (which is a variation of Tennifer, both of which were developed by the same company) by Burlington (they were one of the three places I was going to contact about doing this): http://www.burlingtoneng.com/melonite.html

Nitro-Carburizing is another name with slightly different process, but it all comes out the same in the end: A super-hard outer surface to resist any and all corrosion, with a softer substrate to provide strength, so that the whole thickness of the metal isn't "brittle".

I can't wait to do some torture-testing...
 

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Again, HK could have brought in some sort of materials engineer and maybe a chemist, and maybe one of the guys from "Queer eye" and spent a lot of time matching the colors. Hell, maybe they should bring in Apple to design their stuff and unveil it at starbucks.
It frightens me that you used Apple, Starbucks and matching colors all in the same sentence...all the evil things in the world. Okay, maybe not Apple bc they make some damn nice systems.
 

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I do think that sometimes this can be taken too far. There's a thread on Sig Forum about a guy who is complaining because the inside of his slide has tool marks on it. In that situation, I believe that is just nit-picking. On a highly visable area like the controls, it's not something that I would be happy with.
That's a good point. One thing I noticed when I field stripped my HK45... I was pretty amazed at how well finished the internals were. Not a hint of tool marks to be found. It actually came close to my P210 in terms of machining quality. Whatever issue HK has with the finish, their machine work is absolutely first rate.
 

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There is just simply no excuse for a sorry finish job on a new pistol. The way I see it, if I wanted a pistol with the finish starting to wear off, I would have bought used and saved myself some dough.
 

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HK45

Well I got my new HK45 yesturday and the gun feels great in my hand, but I could not help but notice the blemishes on the slide, kinda sucks I like the gun, but I can't help but notice it everytime I handle it . The gun is an AI, I thought maybe they would have addressed the problem.

Guess not:mad:
 

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May not mean anything to anyone, but I picked up two HK45c's today, and their slide releases are much better coated and blacker than my full-size HK45's... so maybe they have improved their ways a bit. Also, you can order more slide releases from HK in the future if they do make them better and they will all fit all of the newer guns but the P30... I am not bothered by it anyway, i just see it as the way it is for the slide releases, my old P7's slides were like that too, little bit purple. but like I said, my HK45c's are noticeably better for some reason....
 

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The steel used for these parts is too hard for the finish to adhear as it does on the slide, same as the extractors and hammers on the USP series and the slides on the P7 series. This topic has been discussed ad naseum yet these discussions still tend to drag into 2-3 pages. HK pistols, like any other brand, have their quirks. Sig owners deal with the notch ground into the slide to get the barrel in and the unfinished area under the slide where the clamp held it during refinishing. HK owners deal with purple parts. But most of us have learned to take comfort in the fact that they are purple because they are hardened beyond what other manufacturers do. Makes you wonder about your other pistols now, doesn't it?
 

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Oh boy here we go again.........
 

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Metallurgy, Nitrocarburization, PVD Coatings

Yes, I like the fourth option best myself... No one responded to my earlier post here. Does anyone know (or can point me to a link, if this is a newb - often-asked question that I can't find the stickied answer to) if HK uses a coating or a subsurface heat-treating?

I may just have to send mine off to Kolene immediately upon receipt... I'm not knocking HK. Just saying that if I spend $900 on a pistol, and it's a pistol that has a break-through design, excellent accuracy and reliability, and will probably be my number 1 defensive tool for the next 10 years, I don't mind sending it to get a proper finish that makes it as resilient as it is reliable, accurate, and ergonomic...
Check the owner's manual. For the P2000 it stated that the slide has undergone nitrocarburization... that is the technical term for the trademarked name "Tenifer", "Tuftride" or "Melonite" depending on where you are in the world.

The 'Hostile Environment' top coat is a DuPont "spray and bake" coating with Teflon added. Nothing big about the toplayer.

The thing to do is to send the slide assembly and controls to IonBond in Greensboro, NC to have him bead blast away the HE coat and W DLC the parts. They'll have a 3 micron layer of electroless Nickel and 5 microns of plasma assisted Tungsten Diamond Like Carbon.

Check out www.pistolsmith.com under "Finishes" and www.brianenos.com under "Gunsmithing" for details.

Oh, harder steel will requre different processes to match the color. Usually, the purple tint is due to Boron added to steel to enhance it's properties. Lower quality alloys [not sure what exactly is lacking from the AISI 4140, 4340, 4350 alloys] can be enhanced by adding other alloying elements and Boron happens to be one.

There is no "excuse" for not getting it correct - assuming that color is important to them: alter the process to account for it. I'm sure it's cost. I'd like to see them continue with the nitrocarburization and then follow up with a PVD coating (plasma-assisted W DLC being one). Even if they refuse the PVD top finish you can (and I will) have the slides done and have the "ultimate" finish currently available.

Isn't that fitting the HK name? $150 isn't that bad considering, either.
 
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I dunno man. I'd love to get my filthy hands on a slightly flawed finish P30L. I wouldn't complain one bit. It gives the pistol character. Now, getting a brand new HK45 that was full of rust and pits, that would be something I'd make noise about.
 
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