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HK gurus,

I'm in the market for my first assault rifle. As we all do, I dream of the HK 416/417, but for now my options are PTR 91, Vector 93 clone, Sig 556 or maybe Galil (b/c I hear they are more accurate than the AK, and b/c it is the most inexpensive of the lot, not IMI). I'm open to input on caliber, and everything. Pockets don't run very deep; the question I guess is, If you were only going to have one rifle for a while, what would you go with?
 

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Since those are all rifle-caliber weapons, I'm assuming that you aren't interested in any of the pistol/SMG-caliber clones.

Of those three, my only experience is with the PTR 91 (go figure, on a H&K board), for which I paid $950, with about another $500-700 in add-ons after that.

It was fine to shoot out of the box with no add-ons, but I was going for a sniper look/feel so I added a front bipod, a scope, and an adjustable stock.

From a cost perspective, I imagine the Galil and Sig will be the most expensive of what you mentioned, with the Vector and PTR coming in a bit cheaper. In terms of ammo costs, obviously any of the rifles you buy in .223 will be cheaper to shoot than anything you buy in .308.

My first assault rifle was a Ruger Mini-14. It was cheap and I got back every dollar out of it that I spent on it. You might want to start cheap just to see how you like it, then go up from there. You can get Mini-14's in the $500-600 range and they are very solid, reliable guns (not super accurate, but you get what you pay for). Or you could start with one of the AR-style weapons, you can get one of those for $700-800.

Don't let me steer you away from the PTR, as far as a HK clone goes it's a fantastic weapon, but that's if you're going for an HK weapon. If you just want a generic "assault rifle" for the time being, I'd be more inclined to go with something lighter and a little cheaper that shoots .223.
 

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I remember my first assualt rifle. Like a lot of guy's on this board, I bought the civilian version of what I'd been trained on. I bought a colt AR-15. For some reason you left that one out of the running. I think for the money, you should reconsider! Bushmaster makes a great semi version of the M-4 carbine. It's going to be new in the box and usually at a gun show you can pick one up for about 750.00 or under. This is going to be a great first rifle because they have great quality control and have had 40yrs to get it, the design, right. Also it has some serious cool guy points!

My second pick would be between the vector V-93 and the SIG556. I know the sigs come out of the box range ready. I've had 2-3 friends pick one up over the last couple of months and one of them actually said he's not interested in the AR platform anymore after firing it. I'm going to take this with a grain of salt since it seems like every new gun he owns is the best thing since sliced bread. The V-93 may have some issues right out of the box. If you don't mind that and you want a cool looking HK variant I would go with this one. I've always had a soft spot for the Hk33 and the varients that go along with it. My favorite "assault rifle" of all time is the StG44! I think the HK93/V93 with the slim forearm looks a lot like that rifle.

I don't have a whole lot of experience with the G3/91 versions. They've always seemed a big cumbersome and clunky to me. I do own an HK51 and I have a blast with that, but it's more of a "toy" than a tool. If I want to fire .308 it's for accurracy not fun. My Springfield M1A1/M14 is my go to gun!

I would say as far as looks go:

1. V-93, cool looking may have some issues breaking it in!

2. M4, cool looking with funtion out of the box and is cheap to upgrade and replace parts!

3. SIG 556. It's new, I would hold off. I think the people at SIG have heard the masses and will be making some mods to this rifle. If you're happy with the way it looks right now then I would say go for it. They seem to be good shooters.

4. PTR91 Maybe a second rifle, not a first time shooter.

5, The Galil is a great rifle, The Israely Ak variant. I would think the cosmetics would be the thing to look at on this one. Even a monkey can build an AK so I'm pretty sure your reliability isn't going to be a problem. Great gun, but not really in the same class as the others. IMHO!


Hope this helps.

Regards,

R.
 

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TXCDA,

When you ask, if you could only have one rifle what would it be.....that makes me wonder. Are you asking what kind of rifle to buy in case the world goes into a crapper or what? I know I will upset a lot of people on here, but with what I have seen in the whole world, if the world went down the tubes and I needed a rifle that would work through thick and thin, I would buy a Galil in .223 caliber. It is very accurate and will operate in the most harsh climate and conditions imaginable.

Don't get me wrong an HK, AR, and others are good rifles, but for utmost reliabilty a Galil wins hands down. For an HK product, I would not hesistate to carry my HK 53. Of the two I have, one of them has over 15,000 rounds through it and it has functioned 99.9999 percent each time I pulled the trigger either in semi- or full-auto. But that is at the range without dragging it through mud and crud and subjecting it to bad weather all other things that come with field use.

Now with that said........when I talk about a Galil, I mean one that is built by Israeli Military Industries (IMI) I have no experience with clones. IMI built Galils are built on a CNC machined receiver not a stamped one. For a comparable type rifle in an AK-47 platform, I would look at Arsenal of USA. They are based in Las Vegas Nevada and build some of the nicest milled receivers you will ever find.

Good Luck...................
 

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I'd get an AR15 or an AK. The two most available parts and accessories guns around. And versatile as well.

If I could only have one assault rifle... I'd probably go with the AR for accuracy reasons. The M-4 design is just too darn versatile and reasonably prices. And you can take it completely apart with minimal tools and a vice. Oh, and a block of wood too.

One of my favorite guns in my safe, and one that I'd gladly grab if I could take only one, is an Armalite post ban (muzzle break instead of FH) carbine AR15 with a fixed A2 stock. This rifle has worked flawlessly with every crappy magazine and cheap ammo that I've tried in it. Even with some of the USA mags that I didn't think it should have worked with. It isn't the coolest looking but I think the full length stock, buffer, and spring help to make the design work the most reliably, and shoot the smoothest.
 

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I'm a huge fan of AK, but as most folks will tell you they are often not terribly accurate unless you buy a high dollar one or get lucky. I've got a $300 CAI WASR converted to take the double stack mags that shots great, but it is a rarity.

If you just want a fun gun to shot, that always works, but don't want to spend much money the AK can't be beat.

The US made 'Arsenal' AKs a nice, but if I was to spend $1000 I'd rather go with the Rock River AR15.
 

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C'mon guys! This is an HK board isn't it?

Not so deep pockets, asking on an HK only board, get the PTR. Cost less than the pistol caliber clones, excellent reliability and accuracy. Can still be shot for under .50 a round and packs a whollop none of the other mentioned gun/caliber combinations will.

And get this straight right now.
These are not "assault rifles". They are semi-automatic sporting rifles.
 

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C'mon guys! This is an HK board isn't it?

Not so deep pockets, asking on an HK only board, get the PTR. Cost less than the pistol caliber clones, excellent reliability and accuracy. Can still be shot for under .50 a round and packs a whollop none of the other mentioned gun/caliber combinations will.

And get this straight right now.
These are not "assault rifles". They are semi-automatic sporting rifles.
True enough, but he said he justs needs something to hold him over until the 416/417 is available to civilians. Besides if it ain't HK it's a compromise, and a clone ain't HK.
 

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I would go for the PTR. I have an AR15 (.223) and a AR10 (.308). I also have an AK a few sks's. I have owned FAL's but my favorite is my XG3S. Yes, it is a clone (hk 91) and some think that makes it a festering terd but I like it. I have shot PTR's and they are great, I like it much more then my DPMS ar 10. The last post is correct the PTR is a MBR (main battle rifle) not a AR. :100000:
 

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True enough, but he said he justs needs something to hold him over until the 416/417 is available to civilians. Besides if it ain't HK it's a compromise, and a clone ain't HK.
Some truth to that but he asked specifically for clones.
And since the early SAR8s are clones does that make them junk? Huh? HUH?!;)

I advise anyone who is holding their breath for a civie 416/417, don't. I believe everyone mostly agrees that IF the guns come available it won't be until 2009 sometime at the earliest. The dems are more than likely going to get the pres seat this year, giving us a 100% dem majority, which in turn will light fire to all kinds of bad juju for gun laws. I bet the HK talking heads are going to start getting cold feet about a US rifle real quick. Why develop it to fit US markets and regs or heaven forbid build a plant to make it here when it may be outlawed less than a year latter?
I hope I'm wrong but I, for one, am not holding my breath.
 

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I haven't owned any of the rifles you mentioned but I built my own AR. I really liked the AR but as stated previously I was compromising. I am currently selling or trading all my firearms for HK's. No more compromise. I will buy an MR223 when it comes out. From my shooting experience over the years I have also found it is more fun to shoot .223 over the .308. Why not consider the SL8? You can get a good used SL8 for just over $1k.

I figure the MR223 will cost right around $2000. It is as usual more expensive than a new Colt M4 but has updates, HK reliability, and testing to proove its worth. Many say the semi version does not benefit shooters but after reading reviews and watching test video it will not only outlast any other AR but will perform better in harsh environments like an AK.

my $.02
 

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Both the PTR91 and the V93 are nice rifles. I own both, and each has its features and its detractions. The cost of magazines for the V93 is staggering in comparison to the price demanded for the AR 15, or the G3 platform.

I'd get the PTR91. It will do anything the other 223 rifles will do and with great accuracy. Again, to me, since there is no readily available legal "happy switch", in the end you gotta be able to hit what you aim at, so accuracy is become more important to *me*.

Good luck and let us know what you decide.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
thanks guys.

thanks guys. I think I'm leaning to the PTR 91. Many posts on the forums say they are HK's for all intents and purposes other than an HK collection. Considering price, I just can't do the real deal. Saw two HK 91's at a gun show this weekend and they were around $3,500. I'm sure if I get a PTR 91, I will not be sitting around wondering what life with a galil or a sig 556 would be like. With a new Ban as a possibility The costs of mags for the 91 style rifle is pushing it ahead of the V53 In my mind, even considering the greater cost of ammo. Thanks for all the input.
 

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there's a 1976 SACO import HK91 on GB right now, currently under $1700
 

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I haven't owned any of the rifles you mentioned but I built my own AR. I really liked the AR but as stated previously I was compromising. I am currently selling or trading all my firearms for HK's. No more compromise. I will buy an MR223 when it comes out. From my shooting experience over the years I have also found it is more fun to shoot .223 over the .308. Why not consider the SL8? You can get a good used SL8 for just over $1k.

I figure the MR223 will cost right around $2000. It is as usual more expensive than a new Colt M4 but has updates, HK reliability, and testing to proove its worth. Many say the semi version does not benefit shooters but after reading reviews and watching test video it will not only outlast any other AR but will perform better in harsh environments like an AK.

my $.02
I have a few HKs and HK clones and I often find myself sitting around wondering what a Galil would be like. And if I didn't have almost a dozen AR15s, I'd probably be wondering what they were like too.

That whole "In a World of Compromise, Some Don't" is a great marketing slogan but hey, it's a marketing slogan. :D

Now with all that said, I'd grab my HK91 first if someone was attacking the neighborhood. But I'd probably grab the Armalite .223 carbine if I had to take off on foot, as I don't have a 93/53. I'll let you know more, later, after I get one. ;)
 

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All of the above thoughts are excellent. Although it may be heresey here, I will also put in my two cents for a Springfield M1A - particularly the Scout Squad or SOCOM II versions. Superior round (.308 win) than the AR platform, doesn't suffer from gas tube issues, parts available and just shoots well.

I have two Springfields and love them both. I own a SR9 that I made 922 compliant that looks like a MSG90 now. While I would grab the SR9 for long shots, it is very heavy and not as well-suited in its current configuration as a "battle rifle" such as the M1A.

I got rid of my ARs because the platform is weak.
 
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yea I love the 416 too but when is it going to be available for us "governed"? who knows? cant have regular citizenry to have better equip. then red coats-can we? I'd get the sig556 since it's basicaly same build/design/reliability as 416 but i dont know how it "feels" when shooting-however 308 has proven to take out anything in its path-so i guess you have to have both, lol, Rob, Zoo Jersey.
 

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And get this straight right now.
These are not "assault rifles". They are semi-automatic sporting rifles.
I believe the term you are looking for is either "Sport Utility Rifle" or "Homeland Defense Weapon". ;)

I've been around people who've had all manner of AK's, AR's, HK's, SKS's, M1A's, Garands, etc. all my life. Did time in the US Military. The first one I bought for myself was a PTR-91. It's a very versatile platform and caliber and if you think about it, the first one you buy should be the one you'd grab if you could only have one, cos you will only have the one.. well, until you get another one.
 

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Personally, I prefer the real thing with ANY gun I buy. If I wanted a Beretta, I'm going to buy a Beretta, not a Taurus (not knocking Taurus as they are excellent guns). 16 years ago I wanted a Colt AR-15. I looked at all the available clones back then. Some good, some bad. In the end I dug deep and got what I wanted, a Colt AR-15... and no matter what anyone says about Colt, it's a geunuine Colt and that's what matters to me.

If you buy a PTR, buy it because you want a PTR not because you want an HK91. Same for the Vector, get it because you want a Vector, not and HK93.

I'm in no way knocking either one of them, they are both excellent quality guns. Just saying if you want an HK91/93.. go buy an HK91/93. Sure you'll spend more, but if it's genuine HK you're after, don't settle for a clone. As for the SIG, excellent rifle, if what you want a SIG.

If you don't care what you the make is, you just want a gun to shoot, I would FIRST decide on a caliber THEN look at model choices.
 
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