If you're comfortable with shooting DA (1st shot, not SA) then LEM won't do much for you.
Why LEM for HK noob
I have 2 P30S-V3's in .40 and 9mm for about a month now. I could not be happier with them. I want to know what would be the consideration in getting a HK in LEM when I shoot the DA/SA just fine and the pull does not really bother me,YET???. I have read many posts on this subject but would like to hear from someone who has shot and owned both. BTW, my next purchase will be for CC. The P30's are primarily for range and HD and are the first semi auto pistols I have ever owned. What version LEM and what mods to that version if I decide to go Todd G. on it? Not looking to mod my P30's, just keep practicing.
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Maybe you've already answered your own question. All trigger variants have their supporters and detractors. I have several different pistols, with varying triggers. I feel confident I'll use any of them well if and when the need arises.I have 2 P30S-V3's in .40 and 9mm for about a month now. I could not be happier with them. I want to know what would be the consideration in getting a HK in LEM when I shoot the DA/SA just fine and the pull does not really bother me,YET???. I have read many posts on this subject but would like to hear from someone who has shot and owned both. BTW, my next purchase will be for CC. The P30's are primarily for range and HD and are the first semi auto pistols I have ever owned. What version LEM and what mods to that version if I decide to go Todd G. on it? Not looking to mod my P30's, just keep practicing.
Just because I drive an automatic transmission doesn't mean I've forgotten how to, or won't proficiently, drive manual. Make sense?
I shot DA/SA for 11 years prior to going LEM. I did so because I started shooting HK in IPSC and found that I was much slower than others in the production division. I shot the DA in the way that most trainers teach and the was TGS describing in one of his recent post. I was plenty accurate, but just slower than par.
I went light LEM and have very pleased with my time with it vs where I used to be. It made sense for me to convert everything as I did not want to have training scars between platforms. Can you shoot both well? Sure, however with a high round count shooting schedule, it can present issues.
Hope it answers your question of getting perspective of a prior DA/SA shooter.
I went light LEM and have very pleased with my time with it vs where I used to be. It made sense for me to convert everything as I did not want to have training scars between platforms. Can you shoot both well? Sure, however with a high round count shooting schedule, it can present issues.
Hope it answers your question of getting perspective of a prior DA/SA shooter.
I cannot get over how so many people can't stop talking about one single DA shot. It's like the end of the World for some. Holdover, if you are shooting the V3 fine, then there is nothing to gain. You are obviously training with the platform and my hat is off to you. The LEM IMO is for those who can't master the DA/SA.
Cleveland commentary soon to follow.
Cleveland commentary soon to follow.
I'd agree with you. I felt I was slower with it from draw to first shot even if the DA shot was an alpha hit it was slower, so I made a change. I am plenty happy with the choice however.The LEM IMO is for those who can't master the DA/SA.
Cleveland commentary soon to follow.
ETA another advantage I have found is over DA is the shots past 25 yards with a no shoot involved.
If you are a "weekend warrior" like myself, and just head to the range and put holes in paper, chances are you don't practice the "DA" part of the DA/SA much if ever. I get to the range, slide in a magazine, rack the slide and start shooting SA. When I reload, the slide is locked back and I insert a new mag and drop the slide -- again shooting all SA. Heck, my wife shot her Baby Desert Eagle for 2 years and didn't even realize you could shoot it DA! That being the case, I am not well practiced in having to aim and fire in DA mode, especially in a stressful situation -- which is exactly the scenario you face if you ever need to pull your weapon out of your nightstand or if you are carrying anything other than cocked and locked. For this reason alone, it makes sense for me to have the consistent pull of the LEM trigger system that I practice with at the range. Now should you practice de-cocking and firing DA at the range if you have a DA/SA -- absolutely. Do I? Not so much... YMMV
I appreciate everyones input. My intention was not to get the ole LEM vs. DA/SA debate going again. I have the answer I was looking for from each of your posts. I love my P30's and will continue to train hard with them. As for the CC, I will just have to wait and see. Thank you everyone!
That is why I moved to the PPQ for IDPA/USPSA. However, the PPQ is for the square range only. Games are games, social is social. HK remains my social and training platform. Ironically enough Apollo, you would be surprised to actually shoot a PPQ if you haven't already, virtually zero transitioning involved. The only issue I've encountered was trying to take the "slack" between target arrays and throwing a round in the -3 as a result of the there not being any take up on the PPQ. Running a PPQ is like running a P30, the only difference is a stiffer release, your muscle memory will find the release, no problem.ETA another advantage I have found is over DA is the shots past 25 yards with a no shoot involved.
Sorry for the thread drift.
I have not been able to find one locally, gt. I'd love to try though, just need to get my hands on one. Like I said, the main issue for me was the longer shots on the classifer stages. However that L LEM P30LS I got from Mike is the gnats ass.
Sorry for my drift too.
Sorry for my drift too.
Very much enjoyed my LEM hk45.
I have had the light LEM on the hk45 and the standard LEM on a USP 45. It's really a toss up on which one I like more. The LEM has a light take up prior to the trigger stacking, then breaking cleanly. Unlike an actual double action gun, the trigger is not pulling the hammer back while it's being pulled (because the hammer is already most of the way cocked by the action, similar to a single action gun), so the initial take up is substantially lighter and smoother than a traditional double action gun. When the trigger stacks and breaks, it feels more like a single action. Reset is very short and does not require letting the trigger all the way out.
The only true way to tell if you like it is to feel one. I preferred the standard... ideal for me, would be a trigger weight between the light LEM and standard LEM.
I have had the light LEM on the hk45 and the standard LEM on a USP 45. It's really a toss up on which one I like more. The LEM has a light take up prior to the trigger stacking, then breaking cleanly. Unlike an actual double action gun, the trigger is not pulling the hammer back while it's being pulled (because the hammer is already most of the way cocked by the action, similar to a single action gun), so the initial take up is substantially lighter and smoother than a traditional double action gun. When the trigger stacks and breaks, it feels more like a single action. Reset is very short and does not require letting the trigger all the way out.
The only true way to tell if you like it is to feel one. I preferred the standard... ideal for me, would be a trigger weight between the light LEM and standard LEM.
I have carried and shot MANY different firearms platforms in my day. I currently carry my HK45c as my CCW everyday carry, but before that it was a 1911 cocked and locked. I have also carried many DA/SA pistols like a Sig 226 and S&W 469. I always practiced my DA trigger pull on all of my DA/SA pistols with good results with some practice. I actually think that a good DA will teach new shooters how to correctly pull the trigger smooth all the way through. I just recently got my HK45c and since I do shoot a lot of 1911's I thought that I would keep it V1 and carry it cocked and locked. Well after the first trip to the range like that I quickly figured I could not carry like that. Since I am so used to riding the safety on any thumb safety weapon I did the same on the HK45c, but every time I did this I would depress the decocker and put the gun back in DA. So I decided to get rid of the thumb safety and install the light LEM. Well I am here to say that I like the light LEM a LOT more then even my SA on V1. The trigger has some slack that you have to depress with no major pressure whatsoever before you actually engage the trigger break. Once you depress this slack on the trigger which actually feels quite natural you are ready for a very light very crisp trigger pull. There are two other safety mechanisms in place that make sure the gun IS safe until you press the trigger.
Well said!!!I cannot get over how so many people can't stop talking about one single DA shot. It's like the end of the World for some. Holdover, if you are shooting the V3 fine, then there is nothing to gain. You are obviously training with the platform and my hat is off to you. The LEM IMO is for those who can't master the DA/SA.
Cleveland commentary soon to follow.
You confuse me.. in LEM the trigger is still used to pull the hammer back, it's just that the hammer is already pre-cocked so it's easy to do hence the light trigger pull. LEM is not in any way similar to SA. Obviously YMV.Very much enjoyed my LEM hk45.
I have had the light LEM on the hk45 and the standard LEM on a USP 45. It's really a toss up on which one I like more. The LEM has a light take up prior to the trigger stacking, then breaking cleanly. Unlike an actual double action gun, the trigger is not pulling the hammer back while it's being pulled (because the hammer is already most of the way cocked by the action, similar to a single action gun), so the initial take up is substantially lighter and smoother than a traditional double action gun. When the trigger stacks and breaks, it feels more like a single action. Reset is very short and does not require letting the trigger all the way out.
The only true way to tell if you like it is to feel one. I preferred the standard... ideal for me, would be a trigger weight between the light LEM and standard LEM.
I think that pretty much sums it up. You sound comfortable with your platform which is great. It's a lot more than a lot of people can say who jump around looking for the magic solution. Find something that works for you (which you have apparently) and train away. Too many people think they can skip the work that goes into being proficient by looking for an "equipment solution".I have 2 P30S-V3's in .40 and 9mm for about a month now. I could not be happier with them.
And Chuck S. should be arriving to this thread in 3, 2, 1...You confuse me.. in LEM the trigger is still used to pull the hammer back, it's just that the hammer is already pre-cocked so it's easy to do hence the light trigger pull. LEM is not in any way similar to SA. Obviously YMV.
My lem is so fast I could give Josey Wales a run for his money, just saying
LEM
You don't know...what you don't know.
You don't know...what you don't know.
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