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Discussion Starter #1
Sooo, Why mess with the USC/UMP conversion when by the time you are finished, you would have spent about the same amount of money that a 94 is going for these days? I understand that we are enjoying the 94 bargins from the CADOJ, and that will disappear as soon as these dry up, but if you go the USC/UMP route, you will end up spending about $3K (am I correct?) and still have a "clone".

Is it because you can do the "pay as you go" deal with the USC/UMP or is it because folk like the new plastic, black, mean looking UMP so much?

Am I just an old fogie that is missing a trend that you young bucks have discovered? Or, Are you USC/UMP guys just out of you mind?

Please chime in. No insults intended.
 

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/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif for me it's that new technologies badass polymer gun situation, plus I've always really liked the 45acp way more than 9mm, but I plan on having a MP5-PDW as well so i guess im just crazy. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 

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uh, yeah I'm outta my mind, so what's yer point? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
For me, I like the UMP, MP7 etc. The Mp5 is VERY nice, but unless I can get it in a .40 I'm really not that interested.

Getting a civi version in .40, or retro'ing a HK94 to .40, we'd be talking in the 5-6k plus range min. When I'm done, with the UMP clone, I'll be out ~3k including the $200 tax stamp to SBR it.
Getting a HK94 in like new condition, is close to 4k, before spending money on the Tax stamp, barrel, etc.. Getting a "real" MP5 is ~15k, getting a real UMP is impossible. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I like the wieght savings the UMP clone offers, .45acp cartridge, direct blowback simplicity, ability to rail it and add accessories, and yes the pay as you go plan.
And if it gets scratched, I can whip up a batch of dye and fix it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 

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Discussion Starter #4
So do you think the UMP has or is gaining more appeal to the younger generation? I am 50 and I like that old stuff. I like to new stuff - Have a SL8 and USC - but don't like the money pit thing.

But you cannot beat a UMP clone for looks. I remember when all the kids liked Uzi's. Then they all of a sudden said Uzi's were old school 70's. Then the MP5 craze.

So I am looking for real trends and not fads. DO YOU GUYS THINK THE UMP IS THE NEXT BIG THING?
 

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From another old buck, I think you know the answer to your own question, but that is just me. Is the UMP conversion that much over the HK94????? Is the HK9 that much over the Colt 9mm??

I like the HK design. I expect you do too. Nuff said.
 

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Maybe in some of the younger crowd, but I'm 40yo and I like the older stuff too, and I like new technology. I'd like to have a HK94, but paying 4k, I'll pass.
There are tons of MP5's around in LE circles, so I think the jury is still out on whether or not UMPs will replace MP's. I don't see LE's trading them in for UMPs at a large rate, but I may be wrong. The MP's have alot of useful life left in them, they were so well made.
I do think, as LEA's start to look at replacements or larger .40/.45 caliber stuff, it makes sense consider the UMP's. They are much cheaper to build, the design/controls are similar to AR's in bolt catch design, and MP5's in charging handle. They offer improvements in design, weight savings, accessory/situational customization and are easier to perform basic maintenance procedures.

When talking about the next big thing, much of that depends on what HK and other manufacturers will do in the civilian market, IMO. Civilian availability of the M16 via the AR15 sporter increased greatly, the huge popularity of that platform. If HK were to build a UMP clone, then we might see a real trend.
When people see my USC at the range, they don't know what the hell it is! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 

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Discussion Starter #7
When I went back to inspect my mom's home in New Orleans last Saturday, I noticed that at least SOME guys were carring UMPs. It was the first time that I have ever seen one carried. Of course, MP5s were all over the place.
 

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Trend? Fad? umm... whatever.

I live in happy California, and have a USC. I originally bought it 5 years ago in hopes that people would be doing a UMP conversion. I'm glad I did.

I have a number of 'military type' rifles. I thought it would be nice to have a UMP. I'm not doing it because you or your mother think it's cool. I'm doing it because it's a really neat, and unique weapon.

Not many .45 ACPs in the subgun genre of firearms, especially nothing as new and unique as the UMP.
 

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I need something to spend my money on! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Many people spend lots of money having their sp89's converted into MP5k's, many spned lots of money with MP5 conversions, and now many people spend lots of money converting USC's.

The funny thing to me is that people still ask what it is /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 

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Whatever the USC's shortcomings may be, i fell in love with it the first time I saw one. Call me different but it was the first carbine I bought and I just wished that I bought 2 or 3 more from CDNN way back when. They are just a hoot to shoot. That said, I just can't stay on the sidelines when I see all these beautiful USC-UMP conversions out there. My Form 1 was approved about a month ago and I am itching to get the coonversion going. My one and only complaint has been the stock and mag capacity, otherwise I could have lived with the gray color and 16" bbl. I am really stoked about the 25 round capacity and folding stock that the conversion will add to the gun. Further more, the promise of being able to "possibly" switch from a 45cal to 40cal or 9mm with the proper bbl and bolt (TN supposedly has some in the works) is pretty intriguing.
 

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For one I already have a 94, when I finish my conversion I will have both. Not that I kick in any doors with mine but now I have a weapon that chambers the same round as my tactical
 

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I have to agree w/ what most everybody has said, the USC/UMP is just a bad-ass gun!!! The conversions, accessories, dying w/different colors, how easily it can adapt (9mm, 40 s&w, .45acp), etc..!! It's jsut an overall great gun. Also like some have said, it's nice to have something a little bit bigger than a 9mm. Like one of my Sgt.'s have said, "The 9mm round is a [censored] round." (Nothing against the MP5's or such!) It's just 2 great to put into words. And yeah, it's gonna cost boo-coo bucks. But unfortunately not everybody can get the right connection to by a real UMP for what, about $900 bucks or so? So most people are forced to spend $$$ to get as close to the real thing as they can (which is bull**** i might add). Taylordc15 has a good point too. The same caliber as my USPc, that's another reason i decided to get my USC.
 

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why doesn't someone make 25 rd mags for the USC? That and a the pistol grip from an UMP would do the job, would it not. I want an UMP almost as much as the next guy, but it sounds like an awful lot of money.
 

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When I started my quest for the UMP clone, HK94s were both expensive and hard to find. From a cost perspective, the MP5 clone is more expensive. Don't forget with the HK 94 you still have to get a MP5 barrel and a tax stamp to make an apples to apples comparison with a UMP clone.

1. UMP clone costs less
2. 45 is superior to 9mm
3. My Tactical and Compact are also 45
4. UMP is lighter
5. UMP is a simplier design
6. MP5 is old school

Bomber
 

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Here's what I have in my conversion so far...

USC - $1150 (off Sturm)
UMP lower and stock - $350 (Phil Flack)
11 UMP mags - $350 (VERY GOOD buy off Sturm)
Conversion - $600 (TE when they complete their non-SBR version)

Total: $2450 - less than most DOJ HK94s, twice the cost of a clone...

To me I always wanted a .45ACP carbine. I would really love to have a Thompson but they are HEAVY and I would have to have auto to be fun. There was a Grease Gun copy out there from a company in Washington but I didn't like the work. This is the most current .45 ACP carbine I could get and then get it converted to UMP configuration. Had the AWB not gone away I probably would have gone with one of the others...

BF
 

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Since I'm into Class III stuff, I agree that it seeems a bit much to spent $3k for a conversion that I can't make into full auto. What I was really hoping to do was get someone to do a custom UMP-SD in 45 ACP. Now that would be hot! I realize the import regs wouldn't allow it unless the US parts count were brought into compliance...but maybe with the new factory in the US? I'm dreaming. And, it's too bad someone doesn't come out with a double stack USC mag that tapers into a single stack like the P7M13 mag.
 

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Because I have one of everthing else. But the UMP and G36K are money pits. Just fired my USC/UMP finally completed with SBR and it looks cool. I can see why bitch about recoil it jumps around a bit on fast semi.
 

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Because we finished up our G36 clones and needed something else to work on!


In all seriousness - you're either going to 'get' the UMP bug or not. I am also into Title II weapons, but the UMP has a lot of character and is the latest thing out of HK-Oberndorf for a .45ACP subgun. These factorss combine to make it a fun 922-Build Project when you consider that it's a Title II SBR registration, finding all the right parts to finish the project, and then getting the conversion performed on it. The apprehension and wait is excrutiating - I hoped it'd last!

The rifle becomes much more fun when you add 25-round capacity magazines, and the short barrel also helps to make it faster on-target and easier to point. Combine this with the ammo compatability with your .45ACP HK-USP's, and it's a real winner.

To complete the thought that I started with; I like to have projects going on so that I feel like I'm making progress throughout my life - this is one that took 4 years to complete. It is a lot of fun to take out to the range, even when I have other guns to play with...
 
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