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Discussion Starter #1
**I mean NO disrespect in asking this question. I know there are members here that build AMAZING weapons and I'd really like to hear from everyone

A lot of people say great things about Parabellum Combat Systems (PCS); DJ Getz; Dakota Tactical; Investment Grade Firearms (IGF); Brethren Firearms

With all the different options to have different people build my pistol, WHY should I choose one company over another (quality, bolt gap, parts, warranty, cust service, build experience)?

I know I'm going to be spending +$2500-2700 on a custom build; but WHAT makes one gunsmith better over the other?

I will NEVER sell my guns, but I still look at them as an investment and since I do consider it an investment, WHY should I invest with one company over another?

Thank you all for your opinions and input.
 

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Stupid question. Buy one from each.

Problem solved.
 

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I have guns from DT, IGF, MM, DGF, Vector, Power Shot, AviatorDave all good. Like retrodog said, buy from each😁.
 

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I have guns from most of the reputable clone makers and I now learned to stick with few of them only. The reliability of all the guns is nearly equal and the quality of manufacturing is also nearly identical. My reason for not buying from certain people anymore is poor customer service, overpricing and most importantly and decisively that the builder can keep his timeline.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I decided to purchase the PSC 5K (MP5K) from Jeff Walters (@Ghilliebear2000) w/ Parabellum Combat Systems.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
If you are in the $2500 range why not just buy an HK?
@barrington,

I'm glad you asked...I really thought about it a lot

I looked at the SP5K, which is at that $2500 price point, but there are a few things that turned me off to the SP5K and drove me towards contracting PCS for a custom build:

1.) If I choose to go Full-Auto later, I wouldn't be able to do that with the SP5K w/o some type of modification (I've heard various reports that the F/A bolt carriers won't work properly without "some modification"; Extra metal parts in the receiver to prevent the F/A sear; or a "pin" located around the rear sight inside the receiver.
2.) The barrel of the SP5K is 4.53" (no 3-lug) & Honestly, that 3-lug barrel helps give the MP5 that iconic look; My custom order will have the 3-lug MP5K-N barrel (5.5"; threaded; 1/2x28)
3.) I want to have the paddle magazine release
4.) F/A sear ready

It would've cost me the base $2500-$2700 (plus tax) for the new SP5K; another +$500-$700 for ALL the parts I would want on it (if not more; MP5K-N [threaded;1/2x28] barrel required); I would have to pay a gunsmith with HK & MP5/MP5K experience and reputation another few hundred dollars for the all the work and to re-finish it. I've seen prices range from $1100-$1750

*************(Pricing from a well know Vendor)********************
Services/Prices for Converting SP5K to MP5K or MP5K-N

RCM 3 Lug MP5K Barrel with MP5K-N Style Threaded Muzzle $190 (available with 1/2 x 28 or 1/2 x 32 threads)

Labor to Replace Barrel $445

Paddle Mag Install $195

Paddle Mag Lever and Contact Piece $110 (Factory New Hk Parts, you may provide your own parts as well)

Refinish Upper Receiver and Barrel Assembly $175

TOTAL: $1115

***************************************************************

After the base price of the new SP5K and all the other work, I'd be well over $3K; And after ALL that work, HK would NEVER honor any warranty or do ANY service if I had issues.

My custom build includes ALL the parts I want; NO additional modifications required if I purchase F/A sear; tested with a F/A sear; the actual gunsmith that built my pistol will work on my pistol if there are ANY problems

My pistol will be built EXACTLY how I would like it, with considerations to what I want to do in the future, NOT what I "could" do with some extra work.

Also, I can directly call the person making the pistol, which wouldn't have been an added to this list, but he and I needed to talk last night about some questions he had because he wanted the pistol to be "perfect".

Yes, it IS a large investment, but after it's all said and done I will have my dream build the exact way I would like to have it w/o the need for extra time, parts, and money down the road.
 

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@barrington,

I'm glad you asked...I really thought about it a lot

I looked at the SP5K, which is at that $2500 price point, but there are a few things that turned me off to the SP5K and drove me towards contracting PCS for a custom build:

1.) If I choose to go Full-Auto later, I wouldn't be able to do that with the SP5K w/o some type of modification (I've heard various reports that the F/A bolt carriers won't work properly without "some modification"; Extra metal parts in the receiver to prevent the F/A sear; or a "pin" located around the rear sight inside the receiver.
2.) The barrel of the SP5K is 4.53" (no 3-lug) & Honestly, that 3-lug barrel helps give the MP5 that iconic look; My custom order will have the 3-lug MP5K-N barrel (5.5"; threaded; 1/2x28)
3.) I want to have the paddle magazine release
4.) F/A sear ready

It would've cost me the base $2500-$2700 (plus tax) for the new SP5K; another +$500-$700 for ALL the parts I would want on it (if not more; MP5K-N [threaded;1/2x28] barrel required); I would have to pay a gunsmith with HK & MP5/MP5K experience and reputation another few hundred dollars for the all the work and to re-finish it. I've seen prices range from $1100-$1750

*************(Pricing from a well know Vendor)********************
Services/Prices for Converting SP5K to MP5K or MP5K-N

RCM 3 Lug MP5K Barrel with MP5K-N Style Threaded Muzzle $190 (available with 1/2 x 28 or 1/2 x 32 threads)

Labor to Replace Barrel $445

Paddle Mag Install $195

Paddle Mag Lever and Contact Piece $110 (Factory New Hk Parts, you may provide your own parts as well)

Refinish Upper Receiver and Barrel Assembly $175

TOTAL: $1115

***************************************************************

After the base price of the new SP5K and all the other work, I'd be well over $3K; And after ALL that work, HK would NEVER honor any warranty or do ANY service if I had issues.

My custom build includes ALL the parts I want; NO additional modifications required if I purchase F/A sear; tested with a F/A sear; the actual gunsmith that built my pistol will work on my pistol if there are ANY problems

My pistol will be built EXACTLY how I would like it, with considerations to what I want to do in the future, NOT what I "could" do with some extra work.

Also, I can directly call the person making the pistol, which wouldn't have been an added to this list, but he and I needed to talk last night about some questions he had because he wanted the pistol to be "perfect".

Yes, it IS a large investment, but after it's all said and done I will have my dream build the exact way I would like to have it w/o the need for extra time, parts, and money down the road.
Excellent post. A well thought out plan, I like it. And since I've been tinkering with the idea of picking up a new SP5K I'm glad I stumbled across this. HK original or not, your plan makes much more sense for me than going the HK original route.
 

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All your points are valid, and the reasons I bought two k clones about 8 years ago. I love them and they are good shooters. I run a Fleming sear in them and a YHM Cobra M2 on them. A real hoot. But I still always wanted a real HK. Kind of held off because of the $5k price though.

So now the SP89 is essentially half that price. So I got one. And it is one really nice gun. I just spent about 10 minutes on my bench grinder, and now my POF carrier slides right in past the carrier block. I'll probably add a Tac-latch to avoid mucking up the gun, but I obviously won't use the suppressor on it.

All that being said, get a quality clone for shooting a lot and deck it out the way you want. You can get the HK later.

If you're planning on getting a sear, you shouldn't be worried about an extra grand for a genuine HK though. They appear to be running $32k these days. Daaaayuuuuummmmm...
 

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Sometimes I wonder why we still feel obligated to refer to Non-HK roller-locked firearms as "clones". No one does that with other firearm platforms as much as we do. (Think AR s).
I am aware of many firearms that are either varied or direct copies of other manufacturer designs, some sanctioned - some not. Some are even as good or better than the "original" in my opinion, and seem to have never been referred to as "clones" that I can recall.
 

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Not calling a non HK a clone is like calling a magazine a clip. You will bring down the wrath of those that don't want their HKs compared to your clone. Beware.

Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk
 

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The Librarian
MP5-N and HK23E-K
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The only "investment" in buying firearms HK produces is in ones they stop producing. Such as a SL8-6 that was discontinued in 2010 and I purchased in September 2012 for $1350. If left in it's original factory condition, I've seen the same gun sell for $2400. I'm sure in another 10 years, it will be worth over $6k. An even better example is a HK94 with original box un-fired is worth over $6k today. Those sold for as little as $650 back in 1987.

I say get the SP5K if you can find them. There are some out there for $2200 and HK is bring more so just wait until you find one price correctly. Leave it as it, shoot and enjoy. It will be worth more than a clone gun someday.

OR, buy a Zenith MKE under $1600 with the options you are looking for and forget the investment and enjoy it as a shooter.

Either way, once you start with one, you will buy another just because they are a ton of fun to shoot. I started with 1 and now have 6. Both HK, USA clone and MKE "contract" guns. After you get a German roller locked gun, you will see why they are worth more than the US or Import clones. Not to insult the clone guns and I'm sure people will say they are just as good but my standards are high and I'm particular. My signature below explains why.
 

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Sometimes I wonder why we still feel obligated to refer to Non-HK roller-locked firearms as "clones". No one does that with other firearm platforms as much as we do. (Think AR s).
I am aware of many firearms that are either varied or direct copies of other manufacturer designs, some sanctioned - some not. Some are even as good or better than the "original" in my opinion, and seem to have never been referred to as "clones" that I can recall.
If there was an ArmalitePro forum, then everything else would probably be in a clone section. :biggrin:
 

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Not calling a non HK a clone is like calling a magazine a clip. You will bring down the wrath of those that don't want their HKs compared to your clone. Beware.

Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk
I get it and I'm fine with that... I have several HK and "clone" variants of numerous weapons. However let's be honest, as an example... my HK94 that has a 3-lug 1/2x32 barrel and paddle mag installed is still a "clone" of an MP5, even with the DLO box installed, is it not? My USC fuse job is really a UMP "clone" right? Etc, etc.

My DT, RDTS and MM "clones" perform as well as my HK branded stuff and the ones with RCM parts are proving to be just as durable... Guess that's all that matters to me.
 
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