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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a Gemtech Blackside .45 ACP and I'm thinking of getting a H&K USP Tactical for it, just wondering will it damage the gun? I heard a couple people mention H&K only warranties a couple brands but I'm not worried about the warranty as that seems like BS but will this suppressor hurt a H&K USP Tactical? If so, how? Haven't bought the tactical yet but I'm close so I'd like to know if I'm just going to end up breaking the gun with that suppressor.

If it helps any the gemtech weighs about 6 ounces, not sure if that's a big factor in it or not or how the damage could occur. Any help is greatly appreciated!
 

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It should not since it is so light. I think the limit is either 7 or 9 ounces that it can be before a booster is needed, but at 6 you should be fine.
 

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What are you planning to do, get two tailcaps for the blackside? My Blackside (Mark 23) wouldnt come apart for quite a while, and now its no trouble (even though the manual says DONT DO IT)

I guess you could order both tailcaps (for LH and RH threads) and be in the business.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
What are you planning to do, get two tailcaps for the blackside? My Blackside (Mark 23) wouldnt come apart for quite a while, and now its no trouble (even though the manual says DONT DO IT)

I guess you could order both tailcaps (for LH and RH threads) and be in the business.
Gemtech said they'd put the 16x1 LH threading on my suppressor and seal it for 45 bucks. Easy solution to me!

That's a switch. Buying an HK for your suppressor :p
Tell me about it. :mad:
 

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I'm one of the people for whom their Blackside is very unreliable. I can't get more that 100 rounds down range without FTE's. As soon as I clean the pistol, it's back to functioning. I'm still hoping Gemtech will release a booster for it as right now it is very unreliable on both my fullsize and CT. Your experience may hopefully be different.
 

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I've fired a couple hundred rounds out of my USP45-T with Bowers ATAS45 fixed suppressor and it functioned 100%. Even functioned fine on my USP45c-T, so I think it depends entirely on the weight of the can, OAL, which set the fulcrum distance, and possibly whether your handgun is broken in or not.

I would say that if you get a good guarantee from the can maker, then it should be fine. I wouldn't put too much concern into HK's statement for only warranting with several 'preferred' brands - these are likely the only ones the factory tested the USP-T with, and they can't go around testing every .45ACP can out there to say it's good. HTH,
 

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I have NEVER seen or heard of a USP-T that was damaged by a booster-less can. I HAVE, however, seen, heard of and owned USP-T's that were damaged, some severely, by cans WITH boosters that were not properly designed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
I have and AAC Tactical can for my Tactical pistol - no booster and it works great. I'm a big fan of AAC. Their stuff works great!
I've heard good reviews of the blackside on pistols that don't need recoil boosters... my glock 21 just needs a recoil booster. :(

I have a feeling an AAC is in my future. It'll just take time. A lot of time for me, being a college student working for damned near minimum wage. :(
 

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I have and AAC Tactical can for my Tactical pistol - no booster and it works great. I'm a big fan of AAC. Their stuff works great!
AAC stuff may be well made and works great, but their customer service SUCKS! I purchased a can from them, waited 6 months for them to fulfill my order when they told me they had them in stock at the time of purchase. When I called to see what the hold-up was, they didn't answer their phones. I left multiple voice mail messages over a several week period and never had anyone call me back. When I finally did get through to them by some miracle, they gave me some cock & bull story and gave me more delivery dates that they didn't meet. They cashed my check immediately and strung me along a long windy dark road for months.

I would never buy from them again regardless of how good their product is. There are too many suppressor manufacturers out there that are interested in providing me service (and answering their phone) like Mark @ TROS, Tom @ Bowers, Craig @ Tactical Innovations, along with a couple of the big guys too. And lets be honest, making these things is not rocket science. They are all made based on a similar basic design and all function very close to one another, give or take a decible or two. Customer service should be a major factor in your purchase decsion.
 

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I have NEVER seen or heard of a USP-T that was damaged by a booster-less can. I HAVE, however, seen, heard of and owned USP-T's that were damaged, some severely, by cans WITH boosters that were not properly designed.
How does a suppressor damage the handgun? I know it doesn't let them cycle properly in some cases, but I hadn't heard they could actually damage the handgun.

I'm curious about either case - one with no booster, and one with an improperly designed/setup one.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
AAC stuff may be well made and works great, but their customer service SUCKS! I purchased a can from them, waited 6 months for them to fulfill my order when they told me they had them in stock at the time of purchase. When I called to see what the hold-up was, they didn't answer their phones. I left multiple voice mail messages over a several week period and never had anyone call me back. When I finally did get through to them by some miracle, they gave me some cock & bull story and gave me more delivery dates that they didn't meet. They cashed my check immediately and strung me along a long windy dark road for months.

I would never buy from them again regardless of how good their product is. There are too many suppressor manufacturers out there that are interested in providing me service (and answering their phone) like Mark @ TROS, Tom @ Bowers, Craig @ Tactical Innovations, along with a couple of the big guys too. And lets be honest, making these things is not rocket science. They are all made based on a similar basic design and all function very close to one another, give or take a decible or two. Customer service should be a major factor in your purchase decsion.
Hm, that may just impact future purchases right there! I was thinking AAC (I KNOW I want to stay away from Gemtech, despite their customer service being excellent), but I was wondering what suppressors are on par with AAC. I was thinking about giving YHM a try. Anyone heard anything about them?

Does anyone have a black box in production yet?
 

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Hm, that may just impact future purchases right there! I was thinking AAC (I KNOW I want to stay away from Gemtech, despite their customer service being excellent), but I was wondering what suppressors are on par with AAC. I was thinking about giving YHM a try. Anyone heard anything about them?

Does anyone have a black box in production yet?

I'm leaning towards the SWR HEMSII. I've heard nothing but great things about it. Not to mention, different thread inserts are available for the USPTac and the MK23.

One suppressor for two pistols is a major win in my book.
 

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Originally Posted by Illuminaughty (I KNOW I want to stay away from Gemtech, despite their customer service being excellent)

Why is that? I am in the process of purchasing a Blackside .40 for my USPT and i have not heard anything bad about Gemtech???
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I'm leaning towards the SWR HEMSII. I've heard nothing but great things about it. Not to mention, different thread inserts are available for the USPTac and the MK23.

One suppressor for two pistols is a major win in my book.

You can swap out the threading part of the suppressor? That'd be sweet! Does it stay screwed in if it's not locked in there wish some thread seizing material though?

Originally Posted by Illuminaughty (I KNOW I want to stay away from Gemtech, despite their customer service being excellent)

Why is that? I am in the process of purchasing a Blackside .40 for my USPT and i have not heard anything bad about Gemtech???
Goto http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/ and look up peoples' experience with gemtech. You might be fine in your .40, since it's boostered (my 45 is NOT and I need a boostered suppressor to cycle my glock). Looking at how suppressors are constructed, it seems gemtech is inferior anyway. If I bought another suppressor right now, owning a Gemtech Blackside, I'd pick AAC or YHM. They're at the top of my list from the research I've done so far.
 

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You can swap out the threading part of the suppressor? That'd be sweet! Does it stay screwed in if it's not locked in there wish some thread seizing material though?



Goto http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/ and look up peoples' experience with gemtech. You might be fine in your .40, since it's boostered (my 45 is NOT and I need a boostered suppressor to cycle my glock). Looking at how suppressors are constructed, it seems gemtech is inferior anyway. If I bought another suppressor right now, owning a Gemtech Blackside, I'd pick AAC or YHM. They're at the top of my list from the research I've done so far.

Thanks for the info. When I get a chance I'll look it up. As one of the other posts mentioned....these things are all basically the same and customer service is a huge deal for me.
:94:
 

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Folks,
There are a lot of really good cans out there, boosterless and boostered. As far as damaging your weapon goes, only the most poorly designed cans are actually going to inflict harm. In most cases, a the worst that a bad can is going to do is cause the weapon to not cycle for any one of a variety of reasons. Suppressing a weapon is all about expectations. Unfortunately, we as suppressor manufacturers do not do a very good job, as a whole, in managing those expectations.

First is the sound level. Customers think they are going to get movie quiet. This is the first disappointment. There will be a lot of sound reduction, but there is no way that the laws of physics are going away. There will be some sound and there will be a sonic crack on bullets that travel faster than the speed of sound. The quietest suppressed system that I own is an integrally suppressed Savage bolt action .22LR rifle. It's sneaky quiet. But you still know that something is happening.

Wet versus dry. Just about every can will perform better wet. But keeping a can wet is a pain and can be messy. My preference is to use ultrasound gel (like they use to do sonagrams), but it does stink.

Thread on cans tend to perform better on weapons that have been well broken in. I do not have the technical expertise to explain why this is so. However, if I take a brand new can designed for the HK USP Tac 45 and put it on a brand new gun and then put it on a gun that already has a 1000 rounds through the pipe, the well used gun is just going to cycle more reliably.

Acquiring a can is an extended process. While some dealers/mfrs handle this better than others, it still takes time. When a customer purchases a can, that exact can must be taken out of inventory and the serial number recorded on the Form 4. Because that item is out of inventory, most require payment in advance. Now, the seller has to wait for the buyer to collect fingerprint cards, passport photos, and a CLEO sign off (a lot of this can be short circuited through an entity such as a trust or corporation). Once all the stuff is gathered, the Form 4, along with a check for $200 goes off to the folks at the ATF. The processing time can be anywhere from 2 weeks to 2 monthsish. After all is said and done, the can may be delivered. All of the above assumes that the entire transaction occurs in just one state. If the sale goes across state lines, add more entities and forms to the mix.

Performance of the can. As the can is used, things change. There are short term changes and long term changes. All of these will effect performance and reliability. Things like heat and carbon build up. I have watched LEO's take a QD can, slap it on their full auto Rock River .223's, and do several continuous BetaMag dumps with the rig. Not quite sure what the point of the exercise was, but the system failed. What constitutes a realistic use of the device? I make cans that are designed fro casual use and cans that are designed for continuous use. I provide recommendations on ammunition and platforms for both. Even then, things may not work as planned because there are many variables that just cannot be controlled.

All of this stuff is about managing expectations. Some do it better than others. And as an industry, we're slowly improving on this front. I'm not making excuses, but it does get frustrating on our end having a few dozen people a day call up and tell us that our product is illegal. It also gets tiring to explain on an hourly basis that there is nothing that we can do to speed up the BATF process (often the same person will call every day). It doesn't help that the same person is also calling the BATF asking about status. Hint: the less time they spend on the phone, the more time they can push paper. We'll spend a couple of phone calls on why the suppressor isn't Hollywood quiet, even though we have already made this clear. But even all this shouldn't turn us into a bunch of crabby people. We're in sales, so we should do better.

We encounter problems just like any other business does. I actually like problem solving. But when a customer buys one of my cans for his .50BMG Barrett and then gets upset because it's louder than a kitty fart when he drops the hammer, I'm in trouble. I'm in trouble because I did not make it absolutely clear that the customer's expectation was WAY off.

Sorry for the meandering diatribe. I've tried to stay out of can recommendations and issues because I felt that I had a conflict of interest (I still feel that way). And no, not all cans are the same.
 
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