HKPRO Forums banner
1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,551 Posts
Which way would UK roll? Would they go with the HK416A5/G38 and follow along with the company that was once held by BAE and "fixed" (as much as the SA80 can be fixed) their current rifles, or with they opt for a C8 variant out of Colt Canada that's already in some of their units?

Is there still a sense of urgency to replace the G36 with the G38 now that much of the dust has settled on that...and would the German politicians allow it?

It just makes too much sense for UK, France, Germany to all go G38/416A5...that's why it probably won't happen.
 

·
I Bleed Urban Gray
Joined
·
3,304 Posts
I think for the Brits it's going to come down a lot to price difference between the two rifles.
Is there any chance that some of the FAMAS will make their way in semi auto fashion to the US? I would ask the same thing about the G36, but i don't see Angela's and Ursula's teams allowing such a thing. What do you guys think?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
225 Posts
I do not think that replacing the G36 is a good or even clever idea. Especially after they could not find a single soldier who actually ever had problems with that rifle. This must be the idea of someone who just needs to justify his job.

Further I think that a unified weapon for EU + UK would not really improve something. Even if it would just result in standardized training I would not think that this is a real advantage.
 

·
I Bleed Urban Gray
Joined
·
3,304 Posts
I do not think that replacing the G36 is a good or even clever idea. Especially after they could not find a single soldier who actually ever had problems with that rifle. This must be the idea of someone who just needs to justify his job.

Further I think that a unified weapon for EU + UK would not really improve something. Even if it would just result in standardized training I would not think that this is a real advantage.
The advantage is a massive infusion of cash into HK's troubled coffers which translates into more fun civilian products for all of us.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
225 Posts
The advantage is a massive infusion of cash into HK's troubled coffers which translates into more fun civilian products for all of us.
Better chances for both if they order individual weapons. Better chances for the latter if they do not sell too many military guns. Do not expect Germany to export old G36s. The Bundeswehr likes the shredder and third world countries.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
430 Posts
I also came across some articles stating that rumors in the Bundestag say HK stands good chances of landing the contract, as the BW wants to buy something off the shelf as opposed to dev. from scratch. That said, the BW may have to adopt something more compliant to Germany's vibrant diversity, so an apparently obvious choice should not be taken for granted.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,116 Posts
I don't see any reason for those three countries to give any substantial weight to the consideration that they would all use the exact same rifle.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,330 Posts
I don't see any reason for those three countries to give any substantial weight to the consideration that they would all use the exact same rifle.
I can see a reason Combat Effectiveness. For a Multi Nation force that has a common enemy (Russia) there are a lot of good reasons to use an interchangeable rifle. Training and parts to name two. The only thing using different weapons is good for is the Political Egos of a few.
 

·
Requiescat In Pace
Joined
·
3,807 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I don't see any reason for those three countries to give any substantial weight to the consideration that they would all use the exact same rifle.
There are actually many good reasons but they would likely not be considered in the grand plan when it comes to the selection and approval process. It is hard enough to simply field a new rifle these days because of financial, political, personal opinions of decision makers and logistics obstacles, all often used to keep better guns and ammo out of the hands of our war fighters. Some of these benefits of a NATO-common rifle or suite of weapons are explained in this briefing in Part II page 15. http://dtic.mil/ndia/2010armament/WednesdayLandmarkBJimSchatz.pdf

With the history of hallmark performance of the HK416 in the US and abroad, if selected it would also provide the end user with some additional attributes not found in the rifles it would replace in the UK and Germany.

It is an interesting question to consider which is why I posted it.

Common sense would dictate that it should be done for the reasons I list but common sense is usually the last thing involved in small arms selection programs.
It can be done. The WARSAW pact did it twice (in both 7.62x39mm and 5.45x45mm). Surely the US and NATO could if "properly" motivated.

G3Kurz
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
700 Posts
I don't see any reason for those three countries to give any substantial weight to the consideration that they would all use the exact same rifle.
Proliferation of HK416/417 in the GAF is increasing (actual designations are G27 for HK417 and G38 for HK416), the Dutch use them in many areas, the French actually made an official move for their entire forces. So thats actually not so far off, actually most SOF already use them in aforementioned countries.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
430 Posts
Furthermore, some countries may even lease spare rifles to those having unforeseen need. I believe the dutch train with German tanks on a contractual basis in order to spare their and save costs on maintenance?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,466 Posts
I looked in linked article then I saw source of information, then I really did not bother further with this rumor.

Regarding dutch tanks - there are no Dutch tanks anymore, they sold them (100 Leopards 2A6 to Finland and last 15 they kept have "for sale" stickers). There were idea to keep 15 of them to use in joint Dutch-German unit, but they ditched this idea. To put this in context: "rebels" in Donbas have 600 tanks and 1200 APCs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,116 Posts
Proliferation of HK416/417 in the GAF is increasing (actual designations are G27 for HK417 and G38 for HK416), the Dutch use them in many areas, the French actually made an official move for their entire forces. So thats actually not so far off, actually most SOF already use them in aforementioned countries.
I think there's a great case for the 416 by all of those countries. No doubt about it. It's a superb rifle that's on a seemingly perpetual winning streak.

The part of their decision process I can't see is the British saying "Bobs yer uncle...., it's of huge importance that we use the exact same rifle the Germans use."

And the French saying: "sacre bleu - It makes no sense for us to be using a different rifle than the Dutch."

Sharing calibers, magazines - yes, totally. Same specific make/model of rifle between (n) different countries with vastly different sized forces and economies, spanning an entire continent? I just can't go that far.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
430 Posts
I looked in linked article then I saw source of information, then I really did not bother further with this rumor.

Regarding dutch tanks - there are no Dutch tanks anymore, they sold them (100 Leopards 2A6 to Finland and last 15 they kept have "for sale" stickers). There were idea to keep 15 of them to use in joint Dutch-German unit, but they ditched this idea. To put this in context: "rebels" in Donbas have 600 tanks and 1200 APCs.
who needs tanks when you got heineken?? Irony-off ....
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top