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The handgun section. I will move it there. This *is* an HK specific question.
I do. In the original JSOR (Joint Special Operations Requirements) document for the OHWS (Offensive Handgun Weapon System) SOCOM wanted a 4 component system. .45 ACP Handgun (later to be called the MK23 MOD 1), Laser Aiming Module (LAM), signature suppressor and the forth component most don't know about an enhanced round of .45 ACP HP ammo to be used in CT operations. The users wanted a 230 grain +P+ round with high performance expanding projectile. Winchester built an extremely nasty (black colored) version of the "Black Talon" round built to +P velocities in the ".45 Super" range as I recall (it's been a while). There was no SAAMI spec for +P+ .45 ACP so they we working well above known safe limits. I recall the original bullet weight was 230 grains and it smoked, and the overbuilt MK23 loved it! In the end no ammo maker would make the ammunition for SOCOM as they feared it would be fired in a handgun not rated for it - and most were not. The Navy did purchase a qty of Talon .45 ACP +P ammo later to be called "SXT" but I don't recall the nomenclature.Does anybody know?
How much?!?! and yes... hold that pic up. I NEED that lot number.![]()
Is this what you boys are talking about? I picked some up in 1999 when I got my USP Compact 45. The gun shop owner said it was Naval Special Warfare contract overrun.
At the time, I was carrying Remington Golden Saber 185gr +P in my USP Compact 45 and thought this would be good training ammo. It was HOT; you could feel it in the USP Compact.
Highly doubt this was military ammo. "Open tip" bullets are ok and are used. However - anything which is clearly JHP is a no-no in the military. Hague convention and so on. The USMC has an interesting article on this: Corps to use more lethal ammo in Afghanistan - Marine Corps News | News from Afghanistan & Iraq - Marine Corps TimesG3Kurtz & NCDevilDog
I have some ammo I purchased years ago and the guy said it was for the SOCOM .45 Here are some pics of the box and the ammo. To me
it looks like Black Talon stuff.
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I would like to hear your thoughts. Thanks
I only have that half box left. It is really not worth me selling. Lot number is Q4310.How much?!?! and yes... hold that pic up. I NEED that lot number.
1200 something I think.. it reminded me of Cor-Bon 165, only not as much pow.Nice. I think I'll make a batch. Anyone know what the muzzle velocity was/is?
Like G3 said, that's the stuff. I PERSONALLY have never seen them before; I only saw the truncated stuff and got some years later like I said. At some point I quit being surprised at anything that comes from an operators kit bag.G3Kurtz & NCDevilDog
I have some ammo I purchased years ago and the guy said it was for the SOCOM .45 Here are some pics of the box and the ammo. To me
it looks like Black Talon stuff.
![]()
![]()
![]()
I would like to hear your thoughts. Thanks
Thanks! I will see what i can find. I can't seem to find a number for the ammo portion of Winchester...I only have that half box left. It is really not worth me selling. Lot number is Q4310.
Hey azimuth , this can be some of your reloads this winter .....Nice. I think I'll make a batch. Anyone know what the muzzle velocity was/is?
I'm warming up the reloading equipment right now.... :biggrin: I did play around with subsonic loads to find the quietest recipe that would function reliably. I had some that would extract and dump the casings at my feet. They are real quiet, but the recipe varies depending on the gun I use them in.Hey azimuth , this can be some of your reloads this winter .....