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zenith 0 for 2 fail

10K views 52 replies 25 participants last post by  Lamont 
#1 ·
So before the 41p went in to effect I bought 3 guns. Two were Zenith's. A z5-p and a z5-rs. The other was a Kriss VEctor in 45. I know guns need to be broken in so I was spending my time getting some rounds through the Kriss since i had plenty of ammo in 45. I love my 45's. About a month ago I take a new friend shooting and figured I had a case of 9mm now would be a good time to start breaking in the Z5-P. I had read on here that Zenith recommends using 147 gr ammo for break in. So I had loaded up all 3 mags with Federal AE 147gr rounds. Load the first mag and cycle the bolt. point it down range and click! No boom. First time in 20 years of buying guns I didn't have the first shot fire out of a new gun. So I cocked it again ejecting the full round picking it up to look at the primer. no strike. Did this 5 times in disbelief and on the 6th it started firing. Rab smooth for the rest of that mag and the next. On the third mag after about 20 rounds it quits firing. Pulled the mag and cycled the gun to eject the good round and then have parts fall out of the magazine well. Gun is dead. Put the spring and little pin in the case and close it up.
I knew I had my other Z5-rs to break in also finally got to the range yesterday after work with it. well it fires but has a hell of a problem going into full battery. Using the same 147 gr federal rounds. After 400 rounds and too many to count failures i finally put it away. It almost seems like the recoil spring is too weak. It'll close enough to look like it's in full battery but not enough for a primer strike even though it will drop the hammer. When you pull the mag out to clear the malfunction it will then close the rest of the way into battery but has to be recocked ejecting the round. All the loose rounds on the table were some of the ftf in the first 150 rounds. reloading them and trying again would fire 95% of them from a magazine.

I'm wanting to deal with one person at Zenith. Who is the best contact from here for them?

TL;DR My two nib Zeniths are failures and my Kriss Vector is shining on
 

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#3 ·
The z5-p ran great after the first 5 rounds didn't fire, till it broke. After getting frustrated with my RS on the last mag where I had to drop the mag after every shot. About 350 rounds into shooting the RS. I loaded up all the the miss feeds and last 100 rounds I had in my friends Glock 19. The glock fired everything as fast as I could pull the trigger.
 
#4 ·
Might be wrong but AFAIK there haven't been a lot of reports of reliability issue with MKE guns. In fact, I think most users have had pretty good experience with theirs. I know mine is a solid performer so far. So either you have really terrible luck and got the two lemons of the bunch or you are doing something wrong. Are these guns new from factory? Did you clean and lube them prior to shooting?
 
#5 ·
I just got off the phone from Zenith. Talking with Rob Ill be getting a shipping label in the morning. He said from talking with me I've tried to break them in properly. I know they haven't had a lot of issues that's why I bought them and have form 1's in on them. No I didn't clean them first. I've never cleaned any bnib gun I've bough over the years and it's been a lot. As long as they get them shooting well I'll be happy. Things happen not everything comes out perfect.
I'll keep this post informed. I didn't post to bash just letting my experience be known
 
#7 ·
No I didn't clean them first. I've never cleaned any bnib gun I've bough over the years and it's been a lot.
For me it's a MUST DO. New guns have metal chips, oil, & other remnants from the mfg process. Many customers buy a new gun, & go immediately to our range w/o cleaning them first, & have problems. To help them, I will quickly clean their gun, & they go right back onto our range, & the gun then works properly. While this may not be necessary for all guns, it is for many. It's certainly worth 10 minutes of effort. GARY
 
#12 · (Edited)
Guess maybe I should start. It's just never been a problem before or with anyone else I've ever shot with. Now I did get mil sur and that will be cleaned as it's coated in cosmoline.

I can attest to this with multiple rifles. Many have that brown tar-like substance sprayed on all metal parts and you can feel how sticky it is.

Good luck with the warranty OP.
They didn't seem like they were overly oiled so I didnt worry about them.

I recall reading somewhere that Zenith recommends shooting their guns straight out of the box with NATO spec rounds to ensure reliability and proper break-in. Can't find where I've read/heard that. I normally strip of all factory grease/lube when I acquire a new gun but I actually left it the way it was from Zenith for about 250 rounds.
Customer service told me on the phone that 124/ 147 was good for breaking in. He was fine with the Ferderal AE ammo I was using. He actually said the z5-p is more picky on ammo cause of the short action but the z5-p was running through them no problem till it spit some parts out.
 
#10 ·
I recall reading somewhere that Zenith recommends shooting their guns straight out of the box with NATO spec rounds to ensure reliability and proper break-in. Can't find where I've read/heard that. I normally strip of all factory grease/lube when I acquire a new gun but I actually left it the way it was from Zenith for about 250 rounds.
 
#13 ·
The guy was great on the phone. Was very apologetic and emailed me the warranty return forms for both guns right away. He thinks the bolt in the rs might be hanging up on the magazine because it finishes going into full battery as soon as you release the mag to clear the malfunction. I'm not sweating them it sounds like they are gonna make them right.
 
#15 ·
OP, sorry to hear about your problems and hopefully Zenith takes care of you.

I know my z5rs had a few small issues when i first got it. a few FTE's per mag, but the only ammo i had made (reloads) were very low power 115gr for my full size usp. so i knew this had to be the issue. my 2nd time out i took some normal 147s and 115s and shot a few mags and it went fine.
 
#17 ·
Just to update this thread so it's not a endless thread. Just got an email back from Zenith. They replaced and adjust some parts on both guns. They recommended run heavy on the lube when breaking their guns. I have to say the customer service has been amazing during all of this. Here is the email copy and pasted for you to read.


Hello Todd,

I wanted to write a quick note to let you know that your Z-5RS and Z-5P will be shipping back to you tomorrow once we’ve had a chance to sonic clean and lubricate them. I will provide you with a UPS 2nd Day Air Tracking Number in the afternoon so that you know when to expect them. Our armory department replaced the cocking tube support and collar on your Z-5P and had no issues during the test fire procedure. The Z-5RS required a minor adjustment to the magazine well but was mainly binding due to the lack of lubrication on the bolt carrier assembly. When the magazines are fully loaded and under tension (especially with a new model that isn’t broken in), the bolt carrier tends to drag when feeding if it’s not properly lubricated. We typically advise running heavy lubrication whenever possible, unless your in a very dusty/sandy environment, in which case a dry lube would be best. I have attached two completed return forms so that you can see the details regarding the test fire procedure and any repairs or adjustments that were made. I am uploading the files in jpeg format for simplicity. I’ll be in touch with you tomorrow to provide you with shipping information. Please let me know if you have any questions!

Respectfully,
 
#18 ·
Hmmm. I don't remember cleaning or lubing mine before shooting it the first time. IIRC, I ran half and half 115 and 147. My RS had no problems at all, but I mainly run it suppressed, so maybe the extra backpressure helps. Kudos to Zenith for working the warranty, love mine, its a work in progress but what gun isnt? Haha!
 
#21 ·
My z5rs isn't nearly as reliable as my z5k or whatever you call it. Replaced the extractor spring several times and it only works with hk mags. If I had known the sp5k was going to be released, I would have bought that instead. At the time I was in such a rush that I actually filed my form 1s before I fired the guns. Never again.
 
#24 ·
Thread necro...

I had an issue with one of my Zeniths not extracting and ejecting properly. Zenith offered to fix it but not wanting to make the 20 minute drive to Fedex I did the lazy thing and ordered a new extractor to try first. It worked. No issues since.

The other Zenith I had major issues with after I installed the 922R parts, it became a jam-o-matic. Ended up realizing I had bent the trigger box somehow while installing the parts. Bent it back into shape and it worked. A few hundred rounds later I had a FTE followed by several misfeeds and jams. afterwards the gun continued to shoot fine. Two months later I pulled the trigger group and the Blazer aluminum casing from that FTE fell out of the trigger group. It had functioned for several hundred rounds with a casing migrating through the internals.
 
#25 ·
Too many fail posts on MP5 clones are what have kept my from buying one. They seem a bit too hit and miss for me to drop that kind of money. I bought a CZ Scorpion about 3 years ago. I put a folding shockwave brace on it and it has been flawless. Would I like an MP5? yes however there are just too many posts like this one that scare me off.
 
#26 ·
THIS IS JUST AN OPINION.

I run most of my guns suppressed. Straight blowback pcc's like the scorpion and ar9's just don't do it for me. Not trying to start a debate about how roller locks don't really fire from a locked bolt. It's delayed, and it makes a difference. Even more so with an mpx. As I stated previously, I had some kinks to work out with my z5rs, but it's good now. My 5k ran flawlessly from day one. An mp5k pdw clone is what you should be going for anyway<-----another opinion.
 
#29 · (Edited)
An MP5 done right is an awesome rig.

Don't they have some with like 500k rounds through them, with only barrels and minor parts replacement?

I can't remember where I read that?

I'd buy an MKE product (MP5, G3, or HK33 variant) without reservation. If it's not perfect, I trust they'll make it right.

They are an HK contract facility, just like Hellenic Arms, right?
 
#31 ·
I have no idea why you guys buy from people whose products are hit or miss. Who needs that? Oh, they're cheaper? Well, you get what you pay for. "They have great customer service". LOL, sounds like they need it. "They need to be broken in"? Translation from Turkish: "Our stuff is crap".

You guys who are busy enabling these people selling foreign clones where "maybe they work, maybe they don't", or from American builders with QC issues should be ashamed of yourselves. Mostly you do it because they're cheaper. No sympathy, you should know better.

Buy a real H&K SP5K and have it worked over to be what you want it to be, or buy from TPM Outfitters. SHOW ME a TPM gun that had problems. "Break in period" my Aunt Fanny. How about "runs right out of the box"?
 
#32 ·
That's a bit harsh. I'm not going to throw any companies under the bus, but I'll tell you that everyone has a quality control issue here and there. I've personally seen examples of just about every make come through our Armory at Zenith needing some form of sorting and sadly, its because they couldn't get the original company to resolve the issue.
If you have specific experience with our products, then feel free to share it here, or even more useful, share it with our customer service team, but your general opinion of our stuff being "crap" or talking negatively about other companies, US based or not, is not appreciated. What you may forget in the latter, is that though, for example, our weapons are manufactured in Turkey, there is a staff of hard working Americans here bringing them to our customers.
 
#35 · (Edited)
HK has had some epic fails also.

The high-reliability magazines for AR's is one that comes to mind.

HK then compounded it with a snobby and dismissive response to the U.S. Military when they were asked for replacement "product improved" magazine springs (which was perceived to be the issue). As I understood it, HK told them that magazines are expendable items (like stripper clips, maybe?!?) and they should just buy more of the same defective magazines, and not expect the originals to work forever. They stated that they were not interested in designing and producing better mag springs, and refused to countenance that there was anything wrong with theirs.

That caused the U.S. military to deadline the magazines, and many of them were literally blown up in place in foreign theatres, or otherwise destroyed, since their further use was forbidden. A marine buddy of mine said they destroyed thousands of them.

I would think that anyone who has ever been in a business involving customer service and support would wince at this sort of self-inflicted wound. How much did it cost HK in magazine sales, not to mention the lack of an honest assessment of their own products? The DOD was trying to buy more stuff from them, after all, whilst helping them to improve a design which was legitimately failing in combat theatres.

My own experience is that the mags can be fine, with better magazine springs.

HK produces a lot of great products, but sometimes they get it wrong, too.
 
#37 ·
This is the best, AR magazine I own. I’ve had it for 4 years and run it at every competition that involves a rifle. Mainly because it was the first mag I owned that could take an honest 30 rounds without cramming, and it has yet to have any issue. I also only shoot suppressed.
 
#38 · (Edited)
I still use mine, but I replaced the springs with Specialized Armament "red springs".

Supposedly the originals can start to hang up after a thousand or more rounds. I can't speak to that, since I replaced my springs shortly after acquiring them.

I think the mag bodies and followers are great. I can't afford to put thousands of rounds through individual magazines, but I don't doubt that the original springs were the limiting factor.

My agency also stopped using them, but I don't know if that was due to them starting to fail, or just following DOD's lead.
 
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