Very nice write up.
For me, and this is me only, I like the AP5 for the added ballistic performance of a longer barrel. Think about it like this, with the AP5P you basically have a hand gun with a stock and a 30 round mag. That's all well and good. But in a practically identical package you can have better round performance out of the couple extra inches of barrel with the AP5.
If that's not enough to tip the favor, there's nothing that gives you the classic and well known recognition of the MP5 like the AP5.
I have both a standard (POF5) and an AP5P. Got the POF long before the AP5s ever came along and when they did I just had to add the P for that PDW look. Had I only one choice to make it would be the longer rifle for the reasons above.
Like I said, that's just me.

 

For me, and this is me only, I like the AP5 for the added ballistic performance of a longer barrel. Think about it like this, with the AP5P you basically have a hand gun with a stock and a 30 round mag. That's all well and good. But in a practically identical package you can have better round performance out of the couple extra inches of barrel with the AP5.

It's 5.5" versus 8.9", so not a WHOLE lot of difference...3.4 inches.
Ballistics by the Inch shows a 20fps to 80fps difference between 6" and 9"...so maybe it's 50fps to 100fps with 3.4".
I could make that up by shooting +P or +P+, but honestly, my goal is to get a suppressor in a year, so I will WANT subsonic ammo in whichever gun. I was blown away by 147 subs and 165gr HUSH ammo through a friends AP5-P with a REX suppressor.

 

I got the Century MKE CORE versions of the AP5-P and the AP5 (both with a brace) to compare. ** I can really only afford to keep one, so it's a bit of a Death Match. That said, if the "winner" ever gives me trouble, I'll likely just spring for an SP5 and eat a lot of ramen for 3 months.
--
MAGS (magazines are important):
I have 6 HK mags and 2 MKE mags (though I'm only using one to test). Of the two OMAGs, I only tested one, but discarded it because of misfeeds at some point between the 28th and 32nd round...after 4 tries, I gave up on it (it seems to me the spring is just too weak--though maybe I should give it another chance now that both guns are totally broken in). I just cycled through the 6 HKs and 1 MKE, over and over.

SHOOTING IMPRESSION:
I assumed I'd like the shorter gun since it's lighter and handier (this turned out not to be the case, but I'm still wondering if it will matter more one day in a year or two, when I get a can).
Ultimately, the longer AP5 FEELS better with the extra LOP and real-estate (though oddly, I don't really reach my hand out anywhere near the end of the handguard), despite being noticeably heavier (it's only 1lb, but that's still like 17-20% heavier). I didn't actually notice one shooting softer than the other. They're both very soft. I DO have a Griffin micro-brake as a thread-protector on both, but can't say if it helps though I assume so (I HAVE noticed it helps enough to notice on a Glock 19 and P320); the AP5-P has a Tailhook Mod1C brace vs the SB brace. But, honestly, whether I'm shooting supported or moving and shooting, I don't notice the bigger gun being softer (if it is, it's probably less than I can notice, so it could be 10-15% softer--I THINK I'd notice a 20% difference).
--
ACCURACY:
(NOTE: ammo has been almost all S&B 124 and AE 124, though I've also shot S&B 115, Blazer 115, and AE 115)

• Both guns are crazy accurate.
• I shot groups with irons and a red-dot on both guns (at 20Y & 25Y--50Y and 100Y are coming soon). Generally, I'd shoot groups at a faster cadence than normal for me--at my fastest, it was .5 cadence, but sometimes I'd slow to a 1.5 second cadence. Average was closer to .75 than 1.0.
• I found that the castle rear drum seemed a little easier for me to align horizontally, as sometimes due to my cheek-weld, I couldn't see the AP5's whole front-sight-hood through the rear-aperture to align it perfectly--I was using the smallest or 2nd smallest aperture (I'm assuming that's the way to be most accurate), and on one or two occasions, I got a group that was centered 1/2" to the right. IF I supported the gun and got a perfect sight-picture, it was always centered. But at 20Y, both guns shot a 30rd group within a 1.5" hole using irons or the dot (a Holosun AEMS). And, again, this is NOT going slow. At 25Y, it wasn't much bigger. Maybe 1.75"-2" tops (see pics).
• At 25Y, the iron sight holes were maybe .5" bigger than the red-dot's--it was barely noticeable as they were still obviously one hole. Oddly, I haven't had a single flyer outside of the ragged hole in any of the 12-15 groups I've shot supported or unsupported (but this will show up more at 50-100). Shooting unsupported I tend to shoot a less-defined ragged hole (I just realized a "30 round group" doesn't give as much information as a 5-10rd group might); you'd see speckles of bullet holes on the edge of the main hole. I really want to see what 50Y and 100Y looks like. I wonder if at that distance, the classic drum reticle will start to shine.
• At 5Y to 10Y, the POI is about 1" low with irons and 1.5-1.75" with the dot. Double-taps can be touching in the 5-10Y range, but often are up to 1" apart (I didn't do any double-taps past 10Y). I DID notice that I can outrun the trigger sometimes, and it won't double-tap...it just occurred to me that maybe I didn't let the trigger out enough to reset it (but I think I did)--I just pulled super fast and sometimes I'd get a hard-stop, and have to let go so it would reset.

--
RELIABILITY:

• Both guns were cleaned and lubed as soon as I got them. I cycled them both quite a bit, and they definitely feel smoother after cleaning and lubrication. I also put an SEF "navy"(?) style trigger housing on both as well as a Magpul ESK selector.
• I shot the AP5-P first. Other than the OMAGs, it was 100% through all 500rds.
• Two days later, a friend and I took the AP5 for it's "break-in". We had 2 FTEs in the first mag (HK) where an empty case would end up crushed and not ejected. It happened 2 more times in the second mag (HK)--the first of these I let fall back into the trigger housing and had to disassemble to remove (what a pain!!!). Then it didn't happen again until somewhere around round #280, in the 10th mag...and nothing else through the first 500rds. Oddly, the failures were all with DIFFERENT HK mags, but not the one MKE mag, so it wasn't likely mag related unless the springs were a bit tight.
• I took it home, cleaned it, and installed a German ejector (the ejector pin in the AP5 has a retaining clip, but the AP5-P does not--a friend doesn't have a retaining clip on his SP5 or his Zenith ejector pin, which I thought was odd--I didn't see it at first, and couldn't figure out why the pin wouldn't push out). Anyway. The next day, I returned to the range and started with the AP5, the 2nd round had an FTE with crushed brass in it, but then it shot the next 268rds (8 more mags) without a single failure. The AP5-P shot 250rds without a single failure.
• On the third trip, I just gave both guns a small wipe down inside and around the bolt as well as added some lube. The AP5 shot 250rds without an issue, and the AP5-P shot 250rds without an issue. So at this point, the AP5-P has 1000rds and has been 100%. The AP5 has 1000rds, and has had 6 failures, 4 of which were in the first 2 mags, and one of which was the second round after the new ejector was installed--but it's been perfect for over 500rds now. I trust it (it's by my bed), but I won't call it 100% reliable until I get another 8-10 mags through it with no problems.

--
CONCLUSION:
I am having a hard time picking a favorite.
I think I'd love the AP5-P set up super-lightweight with the SHIELD mount which I'd modify to take the full-size Holosun EPS red dot (which would co-witness). However, the longer LOP on the AP5 (due to the rear-plate placement) really makes it feel better. I KNOW I could get an UMP stock to add length to the P-model, but the AP5 also is going to make it easier to mount a light (which I think all HD guns must have). So I feel like it's the smarter choice even if I don't have a real preference.
IF the AP5 had been the one that was 100% from day one, it would be an easier choice, but I think I'm still going to go with it. This will limit my suppressor choices down to the ones in the sub-6" range and nothing too heavy (whereas with the AP5-P, I figured I could run a 7.5-8" full-length one like a Wolfman at 14.5 ounces).

The guns:
View attachment 353598

View attachment 353599

Here you can see the taped shots of me walking the red dot to the right at 5Y, then once centered, I moved it to 25Y, and it was almost dead on, but maybe still .5" to .75" to the right (NOTE: the taped shot in the upper left was when I wasn't looking at the target and aimed the gun to the left a bit to check the ejection pattern--which was consistently hitting the ground at like 25ft away, going slightly forward, at 1:30 from me):
View attachment 353602

Then I moved the dot a bit too much and was like .25"-.5" to the left (25Y)--good enough until I check it at 50Y:
View attachment 353603

I can appreciate such an in-depth and honest review. Thank you for staying true to the scientific method!

 

Keep both.

You will thank me later when supply has dried up and what is to be found on the market is much more expensive.

 

Keep both.
You will thank me later when supply has dried up and what is to be found on the marlet is much more expensive.

I KNOW you're right, and if there was ANY way I could afford to keep both I would; I think I'll get a suppressor in like 1.5-2 years, and I know the -P model would have been sweet with a can. I like how lightweight and handy it is.

However, I'm a single dad of twin girls (age 13) and a teacher, so the money isn't there to own TWO versions of any gun (much less a real SP5). I'm currently down to ONE carry pistol (which is now also the HD/zombie apocalypse pistol) and the AP5....and I'll get a 22 as soon as I can afford one. I'm leaning towards a P17 as I had good luck with one before--though I wish the mags were metal (the P322 is nice, but the ammo can shift in the mag a bit if you're hiking or riding bikes in the woods, and then you'll get a surprise misfeed even with good stuff CCI minimag).

** I think my pay only went from $40K to $48K in the 20 years I've been teaching, so I'm toying with the idea of a better paying job now that my girls don't need me around as much as they used to...it's just hard to switch jobs when your 50, and your skill set is limited to those of a University English Instructor who would be terrible at anything relating to business or the real world.

 

Tough choice. I have the P and now that I have it as a SBR with the long UMP stock and front grip it fits great. I found a simple and clean solution for adding a light but it requires a little surgery and drilling on the handguard, but works great with a pistol light or a cheapish Surefire G2. Still, I go back and forth with the decision against getting the full-size.

 

Tough choice. I have the P and now that I have it as a SBR with the long UMP stock and front grip it fits great.

Yeah, I KNOW an UMP stock would have helped...the brace is just too short, and I already have short, stumpy arms. I will say that because the AP5 is mostly longer in the back, you really don't notice the length out front as much. Even though technically, it's a 3.4" longer barrel, it just doesn't make much difference but you never feel cramped on the handguard. I really think it's best to have both if you can, but the grass is plenty green on whichever side of the fence your on (even if it's natural to wonder whether the other side is any greener).
I bought both SOLELY because I wanted to know which I liked better, but really without SBRing both, it wasn't a great comparison--since the longer LOP really makes it feel good. In the end, I knew I'd be happy either way, but the fact that I'm not going to get a can anytime soon made me think the AP5 was a bit better for me as I don't need compact for anything...heck, I was looking at modding the P to take an A2 stock, which I think looks bada$$.
--
PS: we're getting a new range in JAX, FL, that's going to be great I think. It's called Tango Down and will have a Hogan's Alley, a wood's walk shoot, and a 1000 yard "no-walk" range with cameras and monitors on targets at distance.

 

Thinking you can get a SP5 later may be foolhardy. The SP5K PDW is still hard to get.

Keep both.

 

If you feel like trading out a shorty for some other gun stuff hk or or other wise let me know

 

Id probably be interested in buying whichever you end up wanting to get rid of. Just pm me when you decide

 

I was going to say if you can only afford to keep one, to choose whatever is most reliable. But then again, not every decision needs to be made based on some apocalypse scenario. Do whatever gives you the most joy. That's likely to be more valuable compared to the off chance you need slightly more reliability in some standoff over the last can of beans. At that point, you'll find more means anyway.

 

Dude awesome awesome write up. Very well written. I just finished up my "clone collection" 1 ap5 and 2 ap5-p's. Great guns and you can't beat the prices atm. Ordered the last ap5-p tonight😎👌🏼

 

Thank you for the clear, detailed write up.

 

Glad i came across this post, been debating between a AP5-P and the PTR version... Think i rather the AP5-P price is good and just looks way better, PTR looks cheap

 

Keeping the AP5
Fit is as good as I have seen!
Function? I had one malfunction out of 250rnds so far. Pretty sure it was ammo related.

 

Out of the 2 I have the AP5-P & AP5, I couldn't choose which one I like better. They are just such fine examples. They are spot on straight and came dead on target with the sights set dead in the center. Buttery smooth function. Super smooth albeit long trigger. They just eat anything. They just gobble it all up. Thinking of hanging turkey gobblers off the front sling loop. So people will just know.

 

Yea they sure do run any and all ammo, just gobble it haha that's perfect it. I've gobbled up 5 of these mke variants over the last few months. The quality of firearm you get for what you pay for them atm is bonkers.. $1k, or less even at times.

 

My AP5-P shoots anything except the speer 147gr. JHP Ammo I have a surplus of. Just ordered some H&K mags to see if that helps.

 

I remember people saying the HK mags had a better finish, And were smoother follower function than the MKE mags. Well I recently paid twice as much for a HK mag for comparison. They are damn near identical other than the slight weld, oval tab and of course the inscription difference. My MKE's are just as nice.

 

I have the ap5 but the ap5k certainly has my interest. Nice pair!

 

I have an AP5-P and now I want to get an AP5...or an actual HK SP5...not sure if it's worth thrle extra for an actual HK. I like the AP5-P a lot though. Why does HK stuff have to be so addicting

 

Save up! The clones are cool and I have no complaints especially at the price point, I love my ap5.. but in this market, I think psa had sp5's for like 2499 with a promo code yesterday or maybe even today yet? I'd just save a little longer or if you can spoil yourself now and get a sp5!

 

My AP5-P shoots anything except the speer 147gr. JHP Ammo I have a surplus of. Just ordered some H&K mags to see if that helps.

Same ammo, same Fail to Feed problem. I bought some HK mags to hopefully remedy the issue. No change, really. Of 3 MKE mags, one regularly FTFs and of the 3 HK mags one regularly FTFs with that ammo. No issues with FMJ, though. For the cost, I probably should have just bought more MKE mags.

 

Nice writeup. I like these clones, esp the prices. So far mine have worked great. Maybe you can work tickets at games or something and pick up a few extra dollars and keep the both?

 

Had the same issue with picking the Zenith Z5p or the Z5rs. I could not decide which to pick so I just said screw it and got both. Zero regrets. Love them both.

 

I got the Century MKE CORE versions of the AP5-P and the AP5 (both with a brace) to compare. ** I can really only afford to keep one, so it's a bit of a Death Match. That said, if the "winner" ever gives me trouble, I'll likely just spring for an SP5 and eat a lot of ramen for 3 months.
--
MAGS (magazines are important):
I have 6 HK mags and 2 MKE mags (though I'm only using one to test). Of the two OMAGs, I only tested one, but discarded it because of misfeeds at some point between the 28th and 32nd round...after 4 tries, I gave up on it (it seems to me the spring is just too weak--though maybe I should give it another chance now that both guns are totally broken in). I just cycled through the 6 HKs and 1 MKE, over and over.

SHOOTING IMPRESSION:
I assumed I'd like the shorter gun since it's lighter and handier (this turned out not to be the case, but I'm still wondering if it WILL matter one day in a year or two, when I get a can).
Ultimately, I like the longer AP5 with extra LOP and real-estate (though oddly, I don't really reach my hand out anywhere near the end of the handguard), despite it being noticeably heavier (it's only 1lb, but that's still like 17-20% heavier). I didn't actually notice one shooting softer than the other. They're both very soft. I DO have a Griffin micro-brake as a thread-protector on both, but can't say if it helps though I assume so (I HAVE noticed it helps enough to notice on a Glock 19 and P320); the AP5-P has a Tailhook Mod1C brace AND an SB brace (the latter is 1/2" longer, which I like). But, honestly, whether I'm shooting supported or moving and shooting, I don't notice the bigger gun being softer (if it is, it's probably less than I can notice, so it could be 10-15% softer--I THINK I'd notice a 20% difference).
--
ACCURACY:
(NOTE: ammo has been almost all S&B 124 and AE 124, though I've also shot S&B 115, Blazer 115, and AE 115)

• Both guns are crazy accurate.
• I shot groups with irons and a red-dot on both guns (at 20Y & 25Y--50Y and 100Y are coming soon). Generally, I'd shoot groups at a faster cadence than normal for me--at my fastest, it was .5 cadence, but sometimes I'd slow to a 1.5 second cadence. Average was closer to .75 than 1.0.
• I found that the AP5-P castle rear drum seemed a little easier for me to align horizontally, as sometimes due to my cheek-weld, I couldn't see the AP5's whole front-sight-hood through the rear-aperture to align it perfectly--I was using the smallest or 2nd smallest aperture (I'm assuming that's the way to be most accurate), and on one or two occasions, I got a group that was centered 1/2" to the right. IF I supported the gun and got a perfect sight-picture, it was always centered. But at 20Y, both guns shot a 30rd group within a 1.5" hole using irons or the dot (a Holosun AEMS). And, again, this is NOT going slow. At 25Y, it wasn't much bigger. Maybe 1.75"-2" tops (see pics).
• At 25Y, the iron sight holes were maybe .5" bigger than the red-dot's--it was barely noticeable as they were still obviously one hole. Oddly, I haven't had a single flyer outside of the ragged hole in any of the 12-15 groups I've shot supported or unsupported (but this will show up more at 50-100). Shooting unsupported I tend to shoot a less-defined ragged hole (I just realized a "30 round group" doesn't give as much information as a 5-10rd group might); you'd see speckles of bullet holes on the edge of the main hole. I really want to see what 50Y and 100Y looks like. I wonder if at that distance, the classic drum reticle will start to shine.
• At 5Y to 10Y, the POI is about 1" low with irons and 1.5-1.75" with the dot. Double-taps can be touching in the 5-10Y range, but often are up to 1" apart (I didn't do any double-taps past 10Y). I DID notice that I can outrun the trigger sometimes, and it won't double-tap...it just occurred to me that maybe I didn't let the trigger out enough to reset it (but I think I did)--I just pulled super fast and sometimes I'd get a hard-stop, and have to let go so it would reset.

--
RELIABILITY:

• Both guns were cleaned and lubed as soon as I got them. I cycled them both quite a bit, and they definitely feel smoother after cleaning and lubrication. I also put an SEF "navy"(?) style trigger housing on both as well as a Magpul ESK selector.
• I shot the AP5-P first. It was 100% through all 250rds.
• Two days later, a friend and I took the AP5 for it's "break-in". We had 2 FTEs in the first mag (HK) where an empty case would end up crushed and not ejected. It happened 2 more times in the second mag (HK)--the first of these I let fall back into the trigger housing and had to disassemble to remove (what a pain!!!). Then it didn't happen again until somewhere around round #280, in the 10th mag...and nothing else through the first 500rds. Oddly, the failures were all with DIFFERENT HK mags, but not the one MKE mag, so it wasn't likely mag related unless the springs were a bit tight.
• I took it home, cleaned it, and installed a German ejector (the ejector pin in the AP5 has a retaining clip, but the AP5-P does not--a friend doesn't have a retaining clip on his SP5 or his Zenith ejector pin, which I thought was odd--I didn't see it at first, and couldn't figure out why the pin wouldn't push out). Anyway. The next day, I returned to the range and started with the AP5, the 2nd round had an FTE with crushed brass in it, but then it shot the next 268rds (8 more mags) without a single failure. The AP5-P shot another 200rds without a single failure.
• On the third trip, I just gave both guns a small wipe down inside and around the bolt as well as added some lube. The AP5 shot 250rds without an issue, and the AP5-P shot 250rds without an issue. So at this point, the AP5-P has about 500rds and has been 100%. The AP5 has closer to 800rds, and has had 6 failures, 4 of which were in the first 2 mags, and one of which was the second round after the new ejector was installed--but it's been perfect for over 500rds now. I trust it, but I won't call it 100% reliable until I get another 8-10 mags through it with no problems.

--
CONCLUSION:
I am having a hard time picking a favorite.
I think I'd love the AP5-P set up super-lightweight with the SHIELD mount which I'd modify to take the full-size Holosun EPS red dot (which would co-witness). However, the longer LOP on the AP5 (due to the rear-plate placement) really makes it feel better. I KNOW I could get an UMP stock to add length to the P-model, but the AP5 also is going to make it easier to mount a light (which I think all HD guns must have). I have a workaround for the AP5-P, but it's not ideal--and the best solutions are super expensive scout mounts. So I feel like it's the smarter choice even if I don't have a real preference.
IF the AP5 had been the one that was 100% from day one, it would be an easier choice, but I think I'm still going to go with it. This will limit my suppressor choices down to the ones in the sub-6" range and nothing too heavy (whereas with the AP5-P, I figured I could run a 7.5-8" full-length one like a Wolfman at 14.5 ounces).

The guns:
View attachment 353598

View attachment 353599

Here you can see the taped shots of me walking the red dot to the right at 5Y, then once centered, I moved it to 25Y, and it was almost dead on, but maybe still .5" to .75" to the right (NOTE: the taped shot in the upper left was when I wasn't looking at the target and aimed the gun to the left a bit to check the ejection pattern--which was consistently hitting the ground at like 25ft away, going slightly forward, at 1:30 from me):
View attachment 353602

Then I moved the dot a bit too much and was like .25"-.5" to the left (25Y)--good enough until I check it at 50Y:
View attachment 353603

What brace do you prefer?

 

I havent had the money to spring for a big boy gun yet clone or not, I know its not the same, but I love and bought an H&K MP5 22lr for the range, the kids, fun plinking, I have always loved the mp5 and just didn't want to be another guy at the range with a 10/22, or AR variant....I love it that said. I think I will be looking at clones more than likely when I get some extra cash to buy a 9mm...Love the write up very in depth hats off to you sir and nice to hear about an educator with firearms and appreciation for the hobby. I would love to spring for and sp5 but so far the powerball hasn't worked out for me.

 

I'm afraid OP will not see your praise. He hasn't been on the forum for over a year and a half.