[btk253]

You have may or may not have made several mistakes. First restore the gun to the way it came out of the box. Next make sure is is clean and properly lubed. Then go shoot it, at least 50 rds or so. HK pistols are the most reliable out of the box pistols made.

If all is well with the stock gun, , make one modification, and then go shoot it again, at least 50 rds or so. If all is still well, repeat. The source of your trouble should present itself shortly in this sequence and you will know what it is. Doing a bunch of mods together is just asking for trouble. And will have you chasing your tail.

Thank you so much.

I'm 34 and, Believe it or not, I've never had a new gun, pistol or otherwise. This is my first and only brand new weapon.

So I've never had to deal with this breaking in process!
Also, I've never added so many integral components in order to upgrade the weapon all at the same time.

The chain of events when like this:
I knew that I was getting the gun from my birthday for about 6 months.
So I did all the research on everything I wanted to do, purely based on expert review of the weapon.
Then, I took what all the experts said, found the (In My Opinion*) 'weak spots', and tried to address them with these upgraded, albeit aftermarket, yet still high-quality, parts.

But I see now that as you say, I made a few mistakes. As you said, HK is the most reliable- period!

Thanks for the great advice. I will definitely return the gun to stock and proceed in a methodical way.

Brian

 

[btk253]

Based on what is described, my gut is saying it is either the after market barrel, extended mag release or both.
I think it’s probably the after market mag release. If the part of the release that interacts with the mag is off at all after the first shot the mag will drop lower in the grip than it should. When the next round is stripped out of the mag it tilts up at a higher angle than it should. I have seen this happen at the range with after market mag releases that are out of spec and the jams had the angles yours have.

Assuming you have some snap caps or other dummy rounds laying around I would put the factory barrel back in and cycle some snap caps through it. If it feeds correctly you know it is either the barrel or tolerance stacking.

Then you need to put the after market barrel back in and switch to the stock mag release. Then cycle some snap caps through it. If this combo functions then you know the problem is tolerance stacking and you can only run either the barrel or after market mag release, not both.

if neither of these works put in both the factory barrel and mag release and run the snap caps through. If that works then the problem is solved and both after market parts are out of spec and can’t be used. If it still doesn’t work at this point you messed something up some where and need to return to factory.

Doing it this way will take 10=15 minutes to determine the most likely two culprits, instead of having to do a detail strip, how ever long that takes you.

I completely agree with your assessment!

I believe it is the mag release. For many reasons now, I'm almost convinced of that fact.

YET, I'm going to:
1. do the best thing for the longevity of my gun and return it to a fully stock condition.
2. Run a bunch of rounds through it.
3. Then, one at a time with texting in between, I may begin to upgrade the gun again.

Your comment is by far one of the most productive and helpful. I WISH I COULD tell you how much it means to me! Thank you, Brian

 

[btk253]

This is a reasonable thread of inquiry: does Lazy Wolf or Whatever Company all of a sudden have such better employees and systems than H&K such that they can improve on not one, but several parts of someone else's gun design? Who are these folks?


I have heard of people doing all sorts of things with springs and this is one of the wilder ideas, materials-wise. You could probably leave it locked back for ten years and it would fire the first and next n shots nicely.

This is the heart of the matter. You are not doing an analysis that is extensive enough to tell you if X part is comparable or even "drop-in" functional compared to a part that is designed, built, and released under whatever quality standard H&K engineers maintain. I do respect your meticulous comparison.

I really appreciate your help. I clearly really need to take a step back And really know for sure what I'm doing is correct, before modifying an HK in any way.

I thought about what you said and decided to redact this initial statement and replace it with this one.

Thanks again,

Brian

 

[btk253]

If you are looking for reliability and durability those aftermarket parts are not upgrades.

I highly disagree.

First of all, the springs are made specifically for concealed carry and ACTIVE DUTY.

The trigger system itself is made of billet ALUMINUM, has over travel prevention systems, and is a much cleaner break and reset than my factory OEM POLYMER trigger.

The magazine release as well came from the factory OEM POLYMER. When you press on it to release the mag it BENDS. I replaced it with the billet ALUMINUM mag release.

These all sound like upgrades to me... Or I suppose if I'm being completely objective, I can say with absolute certainty they are not downgrades.

I'm not putting anything on the gun that doesn't belong there and improve it's already excellent features. Call it what you will, once the gun is broken in, I highly expect all of these parts will only accentuate and enhanced HK experience.

Don't take my word for it. Look up all these parts and make the determination for yourself.

Now, the cherry on top. How could an ordinance grade steel, polyagonal barrel, made to the exact tolerances and specifications of HK barrels not be an upgrade? Not only does it extend the length of my barrel, it offers me a threading system upon which I can mount a suppressor.

If those aren't upgrades I don't know what are.

This isn't some AR-15 I'm strapping Chinese parts to to save a buck and look cool in the process.

Thanks for your time, but I think you should probably do some homework before saying anything else. Just my opinion.

Thanks, Brian

 

[German]

I feel if you actually did some homework and knew about the products I added, you would feel differently.

Well, your "homework" turned a functioning gun into a nonoperational one.

There's that.

These all sound like upgrades to me...

They are not.

Most if not all of it is unnecessary.

They are stuff somebody makes to make money. Of course they try to make it look like you absolutely need them.
As well as others make youtube-videos, instagram stories or "reviews" about, to make money as well.

It obviously works, as seen here. The marketing, that is.

Only drawback is, that the gun doesn't work anymore...

I disagree entirely,

I highly disagree.

It's your right to do so.
Maybe someday you'll change your mind.
Itm took me a while to learn that as well.

I respect your opinion and I appreciate your commentary.

And I highly compliment your discussion culture.

Good luck with the downgrade-break in-re-"upgrade" sequence you laid out.
Pleas keep us updated.

 

[btk253]

Well, your "homework" turned a functioning gun into a nonoperational one.

There's that.




They are not.

Most if not all of it is unnecessary.

They are stuff somebody makes to make money. Of course they try to make it look like you absolutely need them.
As well as others make youtube-videos, instagram stories or "reviews" about, to make money as well.

It obviously works, as seen here. The marketing, that is.

Only drawback is, that the gun doesn't work anymore...




It's your right to do so.
Maybe someday you'll change your mind.
Itm took me a while to learn that as well.



And I highly compliment your discussion culture.

Good luck with the downgrade-break in-re-"upgrade" sequence you laid out.
Pleas keep us updated.

Look I admitted that I shouldn't have added all the parts without breaking it in. That's why it doesn't work. Not because all my research failed. Why are you attacking me? Don't be so confrontational.

I CAME HERE TO LEARN AND THAT'S WHAT I DID. SO NOW I'M GOING TO DO IT THE RIGHT WAY. I'd appreciate it if we could keep things constructive.

Maybe you may want to consider staying off the beginner threads, and you won't see stories like mine.

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic, but I will keep everyone updated on my progress. There were many people who genuinely helped me and offered their experience and knowledge in order to help a beginner. I think they'd be genuinely interested to know how this turns out.

Let's just agree to disagree. I did not want to start some argument over something that has already been figured out.

 

[btk253]

Look I admitted that I shouldn't have added all the parts without breaking it in. That's why it doesn't work. Not because all my research failed. Why are you attacking me? Don't be so confrontational.

I CAME HERE TO LEARN AND THAT'S WHAT I DID. SO NOW I'M GOING TO DO IT THE RIGHT WAY. I'd appreciate it if we could keep things constructive.

Maybe you may want to consider staying off the beginner threads, and you won't see stories like mine.

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic, but I will keep everyone updated on my progress. There were many people who genuinely helped me and offered their experience and knowledge in order to help a beginner. I think they'd be genuinely interested to know how this turns out.

Let's just agree to disagree. I did not want to start some argument over something that has already been figured out.

OH, one last thing! You probably should have checked the status of THE UPDATE I logged some time ago, before that little tirade of yours.
By simply putting the original barrel back in, I was able to get it to fire and cycle successfully 100% of the time. So it's NOT BROKEN or NON-FUNCTIONAL, or WHATEVER you said... The analysis that led to my plan to removal upgrades, break in, then add parts back seems to be working ALREADY. That makes me happy.

 

[German]

Maybe you may want to consider staying off the beginner threads, and you won't see stories like mine.

There is a chance that beginners might learn that they don't have to add this and that to any pistol to shoot and hit.

But only if they want to learn and are not convinced from the outset that they know better.

And no, I am not sarcastic. I actually would like to know how things play out for you in the long term.

And I really meant it when I said that I appreciate your way of having this discussion and that you listen to advice, even if not to all of it.

With time you'll make the same observations many others have made before you and your guns will return (mostly) to stock condition sooner or later. This mostly coincides with the point where you really learn to shoot (and hit, with basically any gun you are being handed and not just "optimized" or "upgraded" ones) and realize you don't need crutches to do so.

 

[btk253]

There is a chance that beginners might learn that they don't have to add this and that to any pistol to shoot and hit.

But only if they want to learn and are not convinced from the outset that they know better.

And no, I am not sarcastic. I actually would like to know how things play out for you in the long term.

And I really meant it when I said that I appreciate your way of having this discussion and that you listen to advice, even if not to all of it.

With time you'll make the same observations many others have made before you and your guns will return (mostly) to stock condition sooner or later. This mostly coincides with the point where you really learn to shoot (and hit, with basically any gun you are being handed and not just "optimized" or "upgraded" ones) and realize you don't need crutches to do so.

I do listen advice. Even the things that disagree with, I keep in my mind and try to never forget. Because I know better than anyone, that I could be totally flat on my face wrong, and if I'm ever presented with that situation, I am the first to admit it.

I feel like you're trying to push your preferences on to me. Just because I wanted a metal trigger system that outperforms the OEM one, and to add a suppressor, you're making it seem like I'm trying to trick out a Glock 19 or something...

I truly do appreciate your advice, but like I said I'm not on here to change anyone's mind about anything I'm just trying to learn from as many people as possible.

You've made yourself clear. You don't put aftermarket parts in your gun. You run them bare bones stock- Great! I couldn't be happier for you that you figured out how you like to do things! I can see the value in your approach for sure.
Everything works as it was designed to. Makes sense.
I just have different preferences.

I'm not trying to change your mind by denigrating your approach. Please, show me the same courtesy.

If you'd like to try to change my approach, let's have a discussion, not an argument anyway, that's ALL I'm going to say on this matter.

 

[btk253]

I do listen advice. Even the things that disagree with, I keep in my mind and try to never forget. Because I know better than anyone, that I could be totally flat on my face wrong, and if I'm ever presented with that situation, I am the first to admit it.

I feel like you're trying to push your preferences on to me. Just because I wanted a metal trigger system that outperforms the OEM one, and to add a suppressor, you're making it seem like I'm trying to trick out a Glock 19 or something...

I truly do appreciate your advice, but like I said I'm not on here to change anyone's mind about anything I'm just trying to learn from as many people as possible.

You've made yourself clear. You don't put aftermarket parts in your gun. You run them bare bones stock- Great! I couldn't be happier for you that you figured out how you like to do things! I can see the value in your approach for sure.
Everything works as it was designed to. Makes sense.
I just have different preferences.

I'm not trying to change your mind by denigrating your approach. Please, show me the same courtesy.

If you'd like to try to change my approach, let's have a discussion, not an argument anyway, that's ALL I'm going to say on this matter.

Listen I know I don't HAVE to add any of these things. I LIKE to. FROM MY EXPERIENCE, ALL GUNS HAVE ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT. THE KEY IS TO RECOGNIZE THOSE PARTS ACCURATELY, AND NOT TO OVERDO IT.

Maybe this will give you some insight which may help you understand my perspective:
I've carried a Springfield XD 45 service model for 15 plus years. Now having this weapon is like a dream. I just want to make this weapon all it can be.

I know what I like, so if it all possible, I TRY to make it so.

OKAY, I guess I had ONE more thing to say on the subject have a good day!/night!

 

[Left4Dead]

If you read my post I said in terms of reliability and durability. Does the Lazy Wolf trigger have less take up and shorter reset? Yes, but they are not anywhere near as durable and reliable as the factory trigger. There are many well documented accounts of what has been the issues with them.

As for the barrel, HK does alot of things well, what they do best is barrels IMO. The only thing that barrel does better than a factory HK barrel is possess threads. All other areas I'd take the OEM barrel.

As for the aftermarket parts. I look at the way polymers and metals interact when there is repetitve friction. If HK designed a specific piece to be polymer, personally I'd just leave it polymer. Does it matter? maybe, maybe not. It might have no functional difference, but thats the way the gun was designed, if HK wanted an aluminum part there, they would have put one. Just something to think about. Anyway, enjoy the piece, it's def a massive upgrade over any Springfield XD.

Also, I did not see anyone attack you. I just saw someone reply to your post with the same demeanor you were displaying.

Best of luck...

 

[mrerick]

In many ways, HK is a very different gun company when it comes to precise engineering. I know some of the master gunsmiths in Oberndorf, and know how they obsess on designs and manufacturing engineering decisions. The high precision manufacturing tooling now available has changed some things in firearm - and particularly handgun - manufacturing engineering in the past decade. We see this in the extensive accessory offerings for some manufacturer products - particularly in the SIG chassis based offerings.

The planning and decision making on designs at HK is quite exacting. I personally don't make changes to HK products I have bought, and they run remarkable well and maintain superb accuracy.

 

[Mawashi]

If you read my post I said in terms of reliability and durability. Does the Lazy Wolf trigger have less take up and shorter reset? Yes, but they are not anywhere near as durable and reliable as the factory trigger. There are many well documented accounts of what has been the issues with them.

As for the barrel, HK does alot of things well, what they do best is barrels IMO. The only thing that barrel does better than a factory HK barrel is possess threads. All other areas I'd take the OEM barrel.

As for the aftermarket parts. I look at the way polymers and metals interact when there is repetitve friction. If HK designed a specific piece to be polymer, personally I'd just leave it polymer. Does it matter? maybe, maybe not. It might have no functional difference, but thats the way the gun was designed, if HK wanted an aluminum part there, they would have put one. Just something to think about. Anyway, enjoy the piece, it's def a massive upgrade over any Springfield XD.

Also, I did not see anyone attack you. I just saw someone reply to your post with the same demeanor you were displaying.

Best of luck...

Well stated. 👍
I would add that “as designed” encompasses “as tested”. HK is well known for devoting more of their budget than most to testing. It’s why recalls are not really a thing and design improvements are small and far between. I’m not an engineer but substituting one material for another that might seem better might not be at all (as you noted). It is a flawed position to assume it’s better because it seems like it’s a better material. Until it’s tested, in that platform, you don’t know. And I laugh when someone says “I’ve shot 500 rounds through it and no problems at all...”. Testing is controlled firing of tens of thousands or rounds thru multiple test samples followed by careful inspection to see what just happened. Lol.
This doesn’t happen with most if not all of the aftermarket as we are discussing.
Similarly someone said some aftermarket barrel was “just as accurate if not more” than OEM. Really? Based on what? They don’t know. At best they have a subjective experience. It would take multiple samples shot from fixtures to even approach that broad of a statement. The only thing known in the barrel conversation is HKs are known for accuracy and reliability with their OEM parts.
The OP started by admitting he was new to HK and welcomed advice and criticism. He got advice and only got criticism if you believe in things like “micro aggression” lol. He got advice from extremely knowledgeable folks like German and others who are NOT new to HK and NOT new to the aftermarket. Hopefully that advice will resonate. OEM is the gold standard with HK and why when you stray from that you may well be inviting problems. Research should have also shown that overwhelmingly almost every VP9SK works great, as designed....unless someone “improved” it. Lol.
Lots of threads start with “My HK is malfunctioning” and somewhere in the thread after there are many ammo suggestions and spring storage stuff(lol) we learn it’s a Franken-HK from mods. Hmmm. There is a theme there....

 

[StarWolf]

wrt projectile grain weight,
Although there is a wide range of projectiles available in 9mm most ammunition will run between 115 and 125 grains. This is the sweet spot for this caliber with regards to what works. 147 grain ammo was developed to make using a suppressor with the caliber easier and more effective. There are rounds developed with lighter than 115 grain bullets designed to reduce recoil while still being effective self defense rounds for people who have limited hand strength or lack of recoil tolerance. Those rounds may trade off mass for velocity.

Quality ammunition between 115 and 125 grains is your best bet for break in and most applications. Once you are convinced the gun is broken in and works with those if you have a reason to move to a special purpose ammunition you need to once again verify it works with your gun.

 

[btk253]

wrt projectile grain weight,
Although there is a wide range of projectiles available in 9mm most ammunition will run between 115 and 125 grains. This is the sweet spot for this caliber with regards to what works. 147 grain ammo was developed to make using a suppressor with the caliber easier and more effective. There are rounds developed with lighter than 115 grain bullets designed to reduce recoil while still being effective self defense rounds for people who have limited hand strength or lack of recoil tolerance. Those rounds may trade off mass for velocity.

Quality ammunition between 115 and 125 grains is your best bet for break in and most applications. Once you are convinced the gun is broken in and works with those if you have a reason to move to a special purpose ammunition you need to once again verify it works with your gun.

Wow how incredibly insightful.

Thank you very much for sharing this vital information with a newbie like me!

Now, Is it hard to find the 124 grain, or whatever, that I'm supposed to use? (Someone said HK their design to only work with that.)- At least in the beginning. The self-defense rounds I picked up when I bought the gun were 115 grain.

So I'm just curious if you're aware of the availability or rarity of the proper ammo.

Any particular BRAND and TYPE of ammo? Preferably DEFENSIVE, FMJ if nothing else is available, of course.

Thanks again for your knowledgeable commentary, I appreciate it more than you could know!

Brian TK

 

[Tekton]

If those aren't upgrades I don't know what are.

We are of course all free to do whatever we want to our guns but I think one of your stumbling blocks was language. If you modify a gun to suit you that's great, but insisting that everybody agree the modifications are "upgrades" will raise hackles on engineers and English majors alike. (Not to mention plain old H&K fans.)

Thanks for your time, but I think you should probably do some homework before saying anything else. Just my opinion.

As our President once said, "All I know is what I read on the internet."
What you keep calling research and homework seems to be mostly what I call poking around on the internet. Not that you can't learn anything that way, but it sure ain't peer-reviewed. Very few want to spend time looking into gun parts they don't need or want.

I did search for Lazy Wolf, and here's what I found: first, their website front page features a pistol that has been upgraded within an inch of its life. It's got special holes, doodads, and probably a velvet case to protect the camouflage paint. Not my thing but I know some people like that. Second, a bunch of people complaining that their Lazy Wolf trigger broke, and that the matter was then handled less than honestly. I am not saying that's true, but that's internet.

I wish you luck with the gun, and also hope you keep us updated on the process.

 

[Mawashi]

Wow. I find what you just said to be incredibly insightful, and quite humbling. I didn't realize it at the moment but I was letting hubris block my better judgment, and I apologize to any whom I may have offended.

I'm definitely having all of this information resonate and leaning far toward YOUR corner, LEFT 4 DEAD, and GERMANS' comments.

THANK YOU ALL for your advice.

I really am open minded and receptive! But when something seems like an opinion, I don't give it as much credence as fact or scientific data.
But you just exemplified PERFECTLY exactly why and how the gun should not be tampered with.
90,000 rounds testing with OEM parts should say something to me, if there was an improvement they needed to make, they would have done it.

I'm starting to get it now folks thanks for being patient with me and still offering great advice.
Like I said, the info is resonating like you stated, and I will be returning to stock ASAP. I've already started the process and the gun already cycles and fires properly again.

What a wake-up call your last message was. The one I'm replying to. Truly humbling and honestly I AM embarrassed at my behavior the last day or two, in REGARDS TO my responses to some of the people. But it's finally getting through my thick skull!

In the end I'm noticing that the most critical advice was the most important. So thank you, and everyone else that I may have initially written responses to that would have probably come off arrogant or at the very least ignorant.

So thanks again

Brian K

When you get it sorted out you will really like your pistol. They are superb and you made a great choice. 👍

 

[btk253]

When you get it sorted out you will really like your pistol. They are superb and you made a great choice. 👍

That means a lot to me, that means there's a light at the end of the tunnel! It's the journey that is fun. It's during the journey through the pitfalls and the successes when I learn the most. Especially when I make mistakes!

Thank you very much for your kind words

Brian K

 

[Crashmc]

How long does this love fest go on ?

 

[German]

Now, Is it hard to find the 124 grain, or whatever, that I'm supposed to use? (Someone said HK their design to only work with that.)

Just a perspective from over the big pond:

124 grain 9x19 is the most common bullet weight available in Germany and I would guess in most of Europe.
Most likely reason is STANAG 4090 and the defined limits of the bullet weight therein:

http://gigconceptsinc.com/files/STANAG4090-cartridge_9x19.pdf

A 9x19 NATO round is supposed to have a bullet weight between 7 and 8.3 grams (108 to 128 grain). Most militaries I am aware of introduced 124 grs FMJ loads and the civilian production most probably piggybacked on that.

There are lighter 95 grs, 115 grs available but far less common, and 147 grs loads are quite rare (but available) too, as pistol suppressor ownership in Germany and a few other European countries is quite limited (long gun "hunting" suppressors are often easier to purchase and own).

I'm starting to get it now folks

Love to hear that.

Later on, you can still do experiments with "upgrades" or (real) upgrades if you like to.
But building a solid foundation with your stock gun is the way to go, IMHO.

Oh by the way you may be interested to know, a gentleman by the name of @Mawashi, added a post to the thread.

He said that he knows or at least has spoken to the gunsmiths at obendorf for HK and apparently they are extremely meticulous about every last detail.

It was @mrerick , but yes, I can confirm that, surely knowing not all but some of them as well.

Any particular BRAND and TYPE of ammo? Preferably DEFENSIVE, FMJ if nothing else is available, of course.

One last information regarding ammo:

German police introduced "Action" (4) ammo to a) be able to use an controlled-expansion monolithic round with a "hollow point", while still being able to use it in guns that were designed for FMJ ogive bullet heads (e.g. MP5s with straight magazines). The plastic tip (here yellow) gives the bulled it's former shape back.

I personally prefer a bit more modern ammo types like Hornady Critical Duty (I actually use the 135 grs +P variant for work) or Speer Gold Dot G2 (choice depending on availability).
But the reasoning behind this is mainly limited availability of such ammo in Germany (right now the 135 grs +P Critical Duty doesn't get CIP proofed anymore, I just have a stockpile from back when they still had CIP).


In general terms I would tend to use ammunition tested by and certified for major law enforcement entities (one of the most active organisations in this field is the FBI). Thus I can reduce my own testing to reliability in my guns, as data about bullet performance is available.

Not wanting to turn this into an ammo discussion, but just a few links for you to read into the topic:

Hornady Critical Duty 9mm – The Story Behind The FBI's New Duty Load - Guns and Ammo

The most challenging objective given to Jason Hornady was to win an FBI contract. That just happened.

www.gunsandammo.com

And fairly recent:

Hornady® Critical Duty® Awarded FBI 9mm Full Size Service Ammunition Contract - Hornady Manufacturing, Inc.

Grand Island, NE — Hornady® has been awarded a Fixed Price Indefinite Delivery/Indefinite Quantity (IDIQ) agreement with the Federal Bureau of Investigation for its 9mm+P Luger 135 gr. Critical Duty ammunition. “Having our 9mm+P 135 gr. Critical Duty...

press.hornady.com

An Official Journal Of The NRA | Hornady Critical Duty Awarded FBI 9mm Full Size Service Ammunition Contract

The 135 grain +P Critical Duty round is once again chosen for FBI duty.

www.shootingillustrated.com

Loads by Federal, Winchester and Speer are also certified and contracted:

FBI Contract for Winchester Ammunition (9x19 mm) -

Winchester Ammunition has been awarded in three out of four categories on a recent Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) 9mm ammunition contract.

www.thefirearmblog.com

An NRA Shooting Sports Journal | Federal, Speer Receive FBI Handgun Ammo Contracts

Federal and Speer Ammunition have been awarded prestigious FBI ammunition contracts.

www.ssusa.org