[Romanesq]

Can we all just let this happen??

 

[Krypton]

this is another example of you can't please all the people all the time. lol

When this is done we should do something nice for AU so that they bring us more things.

 

[Elitheiceman010]

this is ridiculous. they are not 416 lowers so no reason they should be marked as HK 416.

this is another example of you can't please all the people all the time. lol

It isn't ridiculous to want a semi auto lower marked 416. plenty of clone lowers and factory lowers have been remarked. I do understand it will not happen at the same time as well.

 

[asillasitgets]

When this is done we should do something nice for AU so that they bring us more things.

Sure, let’s throw a party for AU, maybe even bake them a cake for blessing us with products at a 100%+ markup. God forbid we miss the chance to encourage more price gouging.

 

[JoshNC]

I just had a lower made to match my upper from them. Seems kinda sketchy to import non-sellable rifles, sell all the parts separately, and offer matching numbers...... All from the same place.

As long as the import regs are complied with, there’s nothing sketchy about it. The “repair/replacement” receiver is not new.

I know you know this because we go way back in the SIG collecting world, so this is for those that don’t know. Beginning in the late 90s, Larry Gaglio at CCF imported SIG 551 and Steyr AUG receivers and parts kits. InterOrd imported Portuguese xg3s receivers and Imbel FAL receivers.

When I bought SIG 551 receivers and kits from Larry he would not sell you matching numbers, but that was just his own personal idiosyncrasy.

 

[JoshNC]

Sure, let’s throw a party for AU, maybe even bake them a cake for blessing us with products at a 100%+ markup. God forbid we miss the chance to encourage more price gouging.

I don’t think that’s actually a fair assessment. There is a ton of financial risk involved in importing and selling these things.

AU is far from perfect. But in this instance they have done a great thing for the HK collecting community by even taking on the import of these. It’s a win for imports. It’s a win for the community. If anger is to be placed anywhere, aim it at HK for not importing these themselves, instead giving us non-chrome lined barrels and gaslighting anyone who calls out the idiocy of not offering chrome lined barrels. If AU can figure out import of the mr223a3, HK USA could have done it too.

Yes, they are expensive. Yes they are marked up significantly compared to their cost in Europe. There are tremendous costs involved in attorneys to interact with ATF, import taxes/tariffs, etc. I’d bet that ATF didn’t just approve these without pushing back. And I’d bet B&T had to use their very good, very expensive attorney to force ATF’s hand. Again, not cheap and those costs factor in to COGS.

AU is a business with the goal of making money. They have gotten some amazing Colt and HK items that no one else has been able to offer. That doesn’t come cheap. The market will and already is deciding whether the price is too high. If they are selling, why as a business would they lower their prices?

I am thankful for AU even with its rocky prior history. No one and nothing is perfect. AU is no exception. I personally will emphasize the good and lessen the bad, because overall they’ve done great things.

 

[mmissile]

As long as the import regs are complied with, there’s nothing sketchy about it. The “repair/replacement” receiver is not new.

I know you know this because we go way back in the SIG collecting world, so this is for those that don’t know. Beginning in the late 90s, Larry Gaglio at CCF imported SIG 551 and Steyr AUG receivers and parts kits. InterOrd imported Portuguese xg3s receivers and Imbel FAL receivers.

When I bought SIG 551 receivers and kits from Larry he would not sell you matching numbers, but that was just his own personal idiosyncrasy.

Selling matching "kits" seems like intent to me. Larry was covering his behind. I also never bought SIG stuff, unless it was a whole rifle.

 

[JoshNC]

Selling matching "kits" seems like intent to me. Larry was covering his behind. I also never bought SIG stuff, unless it was a whole rifle.

It’s an import regulation. The importer can’t combine the parts into a firearm and sell it. That’s as far as it goes. A secondary purchaser can combine the parts into a firearm.

 

[Rob Ace]

Can we all just let this happen??

Remember that a year ago today, guys were still chopping barrels to get an SBR, no Ral 8000 rifles offered by HK USA till this day. They brought in a tan MR556A4. Always a but there!!! Thank God that AU and B&T have imported these European Rifles.

 

[Concretehardt]

I agree it’s awesome they brought these rifles in. I just think they missed the mark on the pricing. With the 556 A4 rifles just being released for $3500 AU pricing these at $6000, It’s just too high. And that’s not me speculating, It is the market speaking they are not selling at that price. I believe of the roughly 70 RAL guns that came in they’ve sold about 7 of them from what I can tell. The receivers on the other hand for $799 sold like hotcakes!

Remember that a year ago today, guys were still chopping barrels to get an SBR, no Ral 8000 rifles offered by HK USA till this day. They brought in a tan MR556A4. Always a but there!!! Thank God that AU and B&T have imported these European Rifles.

 

[ddivinia]

I ordered a mr223a3 11”. I want a mr556a4 factory sbr also.

D.

 

[asillasitgets]

I don’t think that’s actually a fair assessment.

Not only is it a fair statement, it’s factually accurate. Go back and read the comment I responded to. The idea of “doing something nice” for a company profiting heavily off this community is laughable.

Yes, they are expensive. Yes they are marked up significantly compared to their cost in Europe. There are tremendous costs involved in attorneys to interact with ATF, import taxes/tariffs, etc. I’d bet that ATF didn’t just approve these without pushing back. And I’d bet B&T had to use their very good, very expensive attorney to force ATF’s hand. Again, not cheap and those costs factor in to COGS.

With all due respect, I think you’re vastly overestimating the complexity and cost of securing ATF import approval. It’s highly unlikely any attorneys were involved, this isn’t some high stakes legal maneuver, it’s basic compliance work.

If anger is to be placed anywhere, aim it at HK for not importing these themselves, instead giving us non-chrome lined barrels and gaslighting anyone who calls out the idiocy of not offering chrome lined barrels. If AU can figure out import of the mr223a3, HK USA could have done it too.

I don’t think anyone’s angry, I’m certainly not. But people deserve to go into any purchase with both eyes open. The import restrictions behind the MR556 series have been explained to death. HK USA isn’t perfect, no company is. But, the idea that B&T USA somehow figured out something HK couldn’t is probably a bit unrealistic. It’s more likely, HK just isn’t interested in dancing on the edge of legality to appease collectors obsessed with chrome lining. If there’s any gaslighting going on, it’s from those pretending AU uncovered some genius workaround, when in reality B&T USA is just navigating a gray area that HK, and even @PEW Group won’t touch.

AU is a business with the goal of making money. They have gotten some amazing Colt and HK items that no one else has been able to offer. That doesn’t come cheap. The market will and already is deciding whether the price is too high. If they are selling, why as a business would they lower their prices?

I have no issue with businesses making money. AU has definitely sold some cool stuff imported by B&T USA/HKI, several of which I’ve picked up myself once they dropped to reasonable prices. They’ve shown they’ll adjust when the market (i.e., us) shows some patience and makes it clear that 100%+ markups aren’t going to fly.

I am thankful for AU even with its rocky prior history. No one and nothing is perfect. AU is no exception.

AU has made it pretty clear they don’t think the rules apply to them, and their actions show they’re petty and thin skinned. If you’re making money off this community, you don’t get to melt down at every criticism. You have to handle it with grace. Transparency matters, especially when you screw up. Combine their attitude with very high pricing, delayed shipping, and missteps, and it’s not hard to see why people aren’t exactly lining up to sing their praises.

 

[Apec]

I’m more interested in the method of import - if other importers can use this to bring in other European market-only firearms (ie FB Radom GROT, Steyr AUG A3 SWAT, Imbel IA2, Manurhin 54X, CZ Bren 2BR, etc), that’s something that should have the floodgates opened so we can get as many guns in as possible while we can.

 

[NotPoorHKFool]

I’m more interested in the method of import - if other importers can use this to bring in other European market-only firearms (ie FB Radom GROT, Steyr AUG A3 SWAT, Imbel IA2, Manurhin 54X, CZ Bren 2BR, etc), that’s something that should have the floodgates opened so we can get as many guns in as possible while we can.

Particularly the Sig / Manurhin 540 series exceptionally cool and rare rifles. Chile used to sell FAMAE civilian versions in Canada

 

[JoshNC]

Not only is it a fair statement, it’s factually accurate. Go back and read the comment I responded to. The idea of “doing something nice” for a company profiting heavily off this community is laughable.

Profiting while providing a great service to this community. These are eccentricities, not necessities.

With all due respect, I think you’re vastly overestimating the complexity and cost of securing ATF import approval. It’s highly unlikely any attorneys were involved, this isn’t some high stakes legal maneuver, it’s basic compliance work.

I completely understand the import process. I am also the one who first called that they were likely importing the lowers as “repair/replacement” and I have no inside track at AU. I am a dealer for B&T, but ever since Tim N left, I have no inside track there either. I can almost guarantee that B&T would have had to engage their attorney in this given that this was disallowed some years ago.

I don’t think anyone’s angry, I’m certainly not. But people deserve to go into any purchase with both eyes open. The import restrictions behind the MR556 series have been explained to death. HK USA isn’t perfect, no company is. But, the idea that B&T USA somehow figured out something HK couldn’t is probably a bit unrealistic. It’s more likely, HK just isn’t interested in dancing on the edge of legality to appease collectors obsessed with chrome lining. If there’s any gaslighting going on, it’s from those pretending AU uncovered some genius workaround, when in reality B&T USA is just navigating a gray area that HK, and even @PEW Group won’t touch.

I may have misinterpreted the tone of your post to which I first responded. It certainly struck me as though you have an axe to grind on this. If that’s not the case, then my mistake.

Also it is really not a gray area and HK USA could have done it in a way that made it 100% unquestionably legitimate.

I have no issue with businesses making money. AU has definitely sold some cool stuff imported by B&T USA/HKI, several of which I’ve picked up myself once they dropped to reasonable prices. They’ve shown they’ll adjust when the market (i.e., us) shows some patience and makes it clear that 100%+ markups aren’t going to fly.

That’s market capitalism. If we don’t like a price we can always not purchase. I’ve overpaid for some things because I had to have it right away. And I’ve gotten deals.

AU has made it pretty clear they don’t think the rules apply to them, and their actions show they’re petty and thin skinned. If you’re making money off this community, you don’t get to melt down at every criticism. You have to handle it with grace. Transparency matters, especially when you screw up. Combine their attitude with very high pricing, delayed shipping, and missteps, and it’s not hard to see why people aren’t exactly lining up to sing their praises.

I agree re: past transgressions. However the frequency with which a few people bring these mistakes up lends support to the idea that there are axes to grind.

 

[JoshNC]

I’m more interested in the method of import - if other importers can use this to bring in other European market-only firearms (ie FB Radom GROT, Steyr AUG A3 SWAT, Imbel IA2, Manurhin 54X, CZ Bren 2BR, etc), that’s something that should have the floodgates opened so we can get as many guns in as possible while we can.

Repair/replacement receiver is my ongoing speculation.

I agree, we need the floodgates open re: imports.

 

[German]

However the frequency with which a few people bring these mistakes up

You really call these "mistakes"?

Also it is really not a gray area

Is it?

I'm still waiting for the explanation when and in which form US import regulations changed.

Until that is publicly known, it's a gray area with potential risk for the unaware buyer.

AU is far from perfect. But in this instance they have done a great thing for the HK collecting community by even taking on the import of these. It’s a win for imports.

When did AU import any of this?

Which import markings are on those guns?

 

[JoshNC]

You really call these "mistakes"?

I don’t really care about the issues you constantly bring up re: AU. They had nothing to do with me. You’re the prime example of an individual with an axe to grind.

I have no skin in the game, no affiliation with them, and unless they screw me in some way and don’t make it right, I will continue to do business with them.

I’ve never been injured by them.

Is it?

I'm still waiting for the explanation when and in which form US import regulations changed.

Until that is publicly known, it's a gray area with potential risk for the unaware buyer.

There are purposeful ambiguities US import regs from the 1968 gun control act that allow ATF to interpret things how they see fit. Repair/replacement receivers have been available in the past as I mentioned in another post. It seems they are again allowing them.

The restrictions are import restrictions ( 925(d)(3) ) and assembly restrictions ( 922(r) ). Once lawfully imported by the importer, a secondary buyer can absolutely assemble these into a firearm, so long as it’s either a pistol or a 922(r) compliant rifle.

When did AU import any of this?

Which import markings are on those guns?

I never said AU imported these. B&T is most certainly the importer based on previous history. I too am curious about the import markings. Time will tell.

I’m not a buyer of these, so I won’t find out personally. I already own a mr223a3 11” tan sbr from the very first HKI import. And have a 416d sf. They scratch my 416 itch.

 

[German]

Once lawfully imported by the importer

Exactly, that's the interesting part.

Obviously the last import was so lawful that they had to stop doing these...

And somebody mentioned the "intent" part already above.

I wouldn't buy anything like that without a proper explanation and assurance.
Because if S hits the F, they simply and conveniently go out of business and you are SOL.

 

[asillasitgets]

Profiting while providing a great service to this community. These are eccentricities, not necessities.

My point was that we’re not going to be erecting statues, having cake, or declaring it “AU day” here. They’re making money, and that’s more than enough.

I completely understand the import process. I am also the one who first called that they were likely importing the lowers as “repair/replacement” and I have no inside track at AU. I am a dealer for B&T, but ever since Tim N left, I have no inside track there either. I can almost guarantee that B&T would have had to engage their attorney in this given that this was disallowed some years ago.

I certainly don’t think you’re an AU or B&T shill, or their inside man here.😂

I don’t think we know the how yet, but it’s not out of the realm of possibility that it’s stretching the rules, or operating in very, very, gray area.

I may have misinterpreted the tone of your post to which I first responded. It certainly struck me as though you have an axe to grind on this. If that’s not the case, then my mistake.

Also it is really not a gray area and HK USA could have done it in a way that made it 100% unquestionably legitimate.

I don’t have an axe to grind. I’m just not willing to ignore the stratospheric pricing, the legal gray area around the importation, or pretend that any business profiting off this community is somehow doing us a favor. It’s a business, not a charity. They’re not doing this for us, they’re doing it to make money.

Whether we agree with U.S. import restrictions or not, the laws/rules are pretty clear about what firearms, what components, whether or not NFA items can and cannot be imported, and how 922(r) applies when manufacturing a firearm using imported components. So when someone’s selling an all German parts MR223 SBR, they’re operating deep in a legal gray area.

HK probably could have done what other manufacturers do (or have done) by having them leave the factory in Germany in a state that makes them not magazine fed self loading firearms, and then completed the manufacturing here domestically with 922(r) parts to make semi-auto rifles. HK has been a risk averse company since being burned by the 89 import bans, and also when it was struggling financially. Perhaps the decision to pursue this type of import was one made due to those reasons, or perhaps their aversion to this approach is one of ethics or principles.

That’s market capitalism. If we don’t like a price we can always not purchase. I’ve overpaid for some things because I had to have it right away. And I’ve gotten deals.

I agree. I’m just going to make sure people know that the price is exorbitant, and that the 100%+ profit margin leaves a lot of room for AU to drop the price, while still making money. Hopefully that message gets through to people and they don’t fall victim to FOMO, which could end up saving our members money.

I agree re: past transgressions. However the frequency with which a few people bring these mistakes up lends support

People have long memories, and these things keep coming up because the issues were never addressed head on, and no ownership of the issues was displayed. Instead, they’ve skirted the rules by promoting their business without being a supporting vendor here, posing as a casual visitor to their own shop. They pick fights with people who voice criticism, and they’ve tried to retaliate against those who’ve spoken out. It’s a textbook case of how not to engage with a community. So there’s an element of reaping what they’ve sown.