I have used the E & L recoil pad, It is very affordable and effective. However, for a little more you could order an HK21 butt pad which is very comfortable, effect and more aesthetically pleasing.

E&L $15.95:
E&L Manufacturing e.Store - HK Accessories

RTG Hk21 Butt Pad $39.95:
https://www.robertrtg.com/store/pc/HK21-RUBBER-BUTTPAD-25p1863.htm

 

I would go the "HK21 Rubber Buttpad" route!!! :wink:

Tony

 

Agree on the 21 butt pad, but combine it with an HK21 buffer (available from RTG Parts) and that is when you get the significant reduction in felt recoil.


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The problem with the recoil is the excessive LOP that makes recoil rather unpleasant, also the fact that the buttplate sits to low.

I made a video here to explain the sad ergonomics of the G3

https://youtu.be/6wrwjYCrWBU


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While I don’t currently own one, I did own a converted SR9 in the ‘90s and that LOP was a bear. Your solution looks great.

Cheers!

 

Very interesting observations, I would never have come to those, but that is why you are innovating for the G3 and not many of us are. Thanks for posting and your keeping the G3 as current as possible for what is certainly a well-aged platform.


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In terms of recoil management, I've always been a big fan of Bill Springfield's enhanced buffer:
HK 91/clone fixed stock improved recoil buffer

 

I see a great use with heavy buffers and enhanced solutions as they save the gun a lot.
But I am unable to by feeling the recoil telling if the gun have that or that buffer when shooting with my stock


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My son traded me a "Heavy Buffer" for my Springfield Enhanced buffer.
We both preferred the enhanced buffer's recoil reduction.
For what it's worth.

 

I belive you, but I am pretty sure it’s because of ultralong original stock that makes recoilcontroll so difficult.
With a stock with normal LOP and a better height of buttplate the difference is much less


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I have an MSG90 Buffer and 21 pad on my G3 clone built from an IB parts kit, a PCS buffer and 21 pad on my G3k. My kids regularly shoot both with the G3 being my sons favorite since time he was 8. They are the best 2 upgrades you can do, maybe it's in my head but I feel the msg90 buffer does a better job between the 2, the next improvement is a muzzle break which tests done (I do not recall the poster demonstrated between 15-40 percent improvements in a bench rested rifles movement. Between the three upgrades If your wife doesnt find it more pleasant it's a psychological thing or you need to verify the bolt gap to be sure rifle is set up correctly. Honestly the 21 buttpad should be your first upgrade , followed by buffer, then the break. The only downsides to the breaks is the noise level increase and the abusing your neighbors on the benches besides you.

 

Original LOP is like 15” and very few humans do benefit from that Lenght.
So best thing to do is to cut LOP to same length as your other favourite rifles and shotguns have.....


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Perhaps, I have considered your stocks, I have 4 different stocks as is. I do like the adjustment aspect. My first time firing my M16a2 with full body armor was at night in combat, having the ability to adjust the stock to compensate for that would have made a huge difference. I do like traditional stocks, at least the look, I have even considered if someone produced a shorter stock that accepted the buffer and buttpad I would give it a try. For most of my range shooting I do not notice it but I do make use of a bipod which offsets the shouldering issues of a long LOP, this is my daughter playing with my G3 clone

I have enough junk surplus buttstocks maybe I'll experiment by cutting down and reinstalling the stock pin tubes.

 

Perhaps, I have considered your stocks, I have 4 different stocks as is. I do like the adjustment aspect. My first time firing my M16a2 with full body armor was at night in combat, having the ability to adjust the stock to compensate for that would have made a huge difference. I do like traditional stocks, at least the look, I have even considered if someone produced a shorter stock that accepted the buffer and buttpad I would give it a try. For most of my range shooting I do not notice it but I do make use of a bipod which offsets the shouldering issues of a long LOP, this is my daughter playing with my G3 clone View attachment 221774

In prone the extreme LOP is not an issue, but as offhand gun it’s a real issue.
A standard G3 is like an M16A2 that got LOP extended 1,5”

Not the hump on the stock forces the LOP to be excessive.



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I am currently using a Magpul MOE Fixed Carbine Stock (commercial spec) on the Spuhr R-410 buffer tube/backplate assembly with a heavy two stage buffer and find it to be most excellent. Had to trim about .250 inch / 6mm off the front edge of the little Magpul "nose piece" adapter and then the Spuhr parts and Magpul parts interface beautifully.

The Spuhr stuff is nice the way it comes, but experience has taught me that access to good iron sights RIGHT THIS INSTANT is not optional.

Magpul collapsible stocks (commercial spec) go right on the Spuhr tube as well, but do not lock in the forward most position - not a deal breaker for me. My next experiment is going to be the MOE stock with removable cheek piece for use with optics. If good results I'll take a Milspec MOE, open up the inside diameter a bit with 1" barstock and sandpaper until it fits the Spuhr tube tight and wobble free and call it a "win". This works - did it with a Milspec CTR - just want to omit the need for the extra locking lever.

Hope this is of interest to some, and hope we see more cool stuff from Spuhr.

It occurs to me I should stop working with my HK's long enough to learn how to post some pics.

 

Thanks!

Never tried that actually

However at the same time as G3 irons are VERY good their height is just way to low.
So If I was using the gun in a way that I would need back up ironsights I would probably fit some flip ups to the G3 so the irons get same height as Optics


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QUOTE=Spuhr;3459704]Thanks!

Never tried that actually

However at the same time as G3 irons are VERY good their height is just way to low.
So If I was using the gun in a way that I would need back up ironsights I would probably fit some flip ups to the G3 so the irons get same height as Optics
[/QUOTE]

I Agree. I would love to build (or have built I should say) a G3/HK 91 with welded M1913 sections front and rear at the correct height you mention to install nice flip-ups. Then I could just enjoy your excellent R-410 stock the way it is and skip the junior-genius modifications.

Any chance there could be Spuhr plastic in the future (for the R-410 system) which is intended for use with existing G3 sights ? I realize that would be going in a different direction then your original intention, but would be VERY cool. I have my second R-410 on the way - if I work up enough courage I may try grinding / sanding / re-shaping one of the buttstocks - basically removing the rib on top to allow a good cheek weld. Another mad-scientist experiment, but what the heck.

My understanding is that all aluminum in Spuhr products is 7075 alloy - is that correct Sir ? Thank you for your input and time - it is a pleasure to have you in this forum.

Hopefully there are some useful ideas in here for members interested in stock improvement and recoil management


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Does anyone know if the HK21 rubber pad works on surplus wood stocks?

 

A member did this - I want to say about six months ago - and shared a great post with good pics. Sorry I don't remember exactly who or when but it is here in "long gun talk" somewhere. It was not too complicated a modification either.
I am going looking for another old post where a member had started welding / machining M1913 sections fore and aft on a 91 so he could install bolt-on flip ups. If you listen carefully you can almost hear the MR762 guys groaning "Just join the 21st century already!!!" Anyway if I run into the 21 pad / wood stock post before you I'll send you the info.

 

A good post concerning 21 pad on wood stock - DedPyro, 6 June 2018, currently on page 10 of Long Gun Talk.

 

I just replaced the standard buttpad and buffer on my PTR91 with the HK21 pad and enhanced buffer from HKParts. You still know you're firing 7.62X51, but it's a pleasant "thump" instead of a punishing "slam". I'd still be at the range if that darn sun hadn't gone down!

The increased length of pull can be an issue, though. I'm 6' tall and it's about as long I can shoot comfortably.

 

I have a HK heavy buffer(forget which one) and the 21 buttpad on a SAR3-k-ish(with KAC rail, 2x aimpoint, so it a heavy gun).......and recoil is no issue at all, I can run 100's of rounds thru and I feel no worse for it. My buddies 110lb girlfriend ran that gun like it was made for her....she just kept asking for more mags

only thing I don't always like about the 21 buttpad is that it can grab on my clothing when bringing to shoulder...but the plus side is it stays put once shouldered

yes, I wish the stock was a bit shorter. Worse yet is the SG1 stock on my 93, its a bit longer yet

 

I had the same set up, with a COMPML2-2X, but with a full length SAR-3/8, vertical grip on M-Lok forearm, sniper buttstock (w/o the cheekpiece attached) with hvy buffer and HK-21 buttpad. I finally ditched the sniper stock and HK-21 buttpad, because the length and weight was just more than I wanted, and it felt slow to shoulder.

I retrofitted it with a standard A3 stock and put a PCS heavy buffer in that. That has been the best solution so far for me. LOP feels perfect.

 

Here is a break down of the enhanced buffers that I offer. First off, stock/standard buffers are also designed to absorb the stout recoil of launching rifle grenades as well as the 7.62 NATO cartridge.
View attachment 222982

Notice the stock unit at top with the extra strength recoil spring and compression limiters. Lower unit has thinner wire, since the spring can compress more, a longer piston is incorporated.

View attachment 222984

The above pic shows the make up of aftermarket units that are available with a longer spring body housing. I have seen some with a similar length piston, some a little longer. While these units do reduce felt recoil, they are not as effective as they could be because they utilize the stock springs.

View attachment 222986

The advantages of the enhanced unit is the stock HK housing is utilized, no potential hassles of installing into a plastic vs wood stock and all the stock mounting hardware is utilized. Up to a 40% reduction in recoil can be observed. A similar setup is available for the HK A3 retractable stock as well.
Bill
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So here are a few pictures of how my CETME/HK21 buttpad conversion turned out...I basically followed DedPyro's great plan, but with just a few tweaks. I cut off the aluminum plate that extended outside of the HK21 pad entirely, so that it was flush with the rubber overmolding. This left about 1/8" of the aluminum embedded in the rubber. I also found the screws for my buttpad to be size 8's, not 10's...and my CETME buttpad was DEFINITELY RUBBER, instead of the fiber filled nylon that DedPyro encountered. I obtained some #8 1 1/2 "wood screws and used those to reattach the two halves of my cobbled up buttpad to the buttstock. Having removed the entire aluminum extension that was molded in to the HK21 pad, (except for the part that remained embedded)allowed me to fit the "adapter " CETME buttpad and the HK21 pad more or less fay (flush) to one another. Instead of using an o ring, being an aircraft mechanic, I slathered in between the two pieces with B 1/2 fuel tank sealant, and then smoothed it around the outside of the CETME adapter plate and the HK21 pad to make for a smoother transition. I let the sealant cure, then screwed it onto the buttstock. LOP issue SOLVED! It's been test fired, and not only softens the recoil, but now my eye is the proper distance from my optic!

 

Hmm, my HK91 is soft shooting. Very reasonable to me.

 

Yeah, I agree. Considering the "thump" that 7.62 NATO puts on target, I feel that the recoil impulse is pretty mild. I know others have looked for some recoil reduction, but the modifications I did on mine were driven solely by my desire for a longer length of pull.

 

HK21 pad works well. Hell, the G3 doesn’t kick that hard, even on full auto.

 

I'm with ghosthk, I don't think it recoils that hard. Maybe some shooters are too used to the .223 AR and expect the same experience.

 

I did add an ar-15 limbsaver to my spuhr buttstock. Perfect fit